Lennox Lewis vs. Muhammad Ali

I know you didn't say that Haye was light years better, but how is Haye as fast overall?

He hasn't got Ali's footwork. Their footwork is not in anyway comparable.

Haye's got fast hands, but he doesn't use his footwork in the same way. He doesn't dance from side to side and circle an opponent, whilst flicking out the jab etc. He doesn't avoid punches like Ali used to, and make his opponent miss, and then counter. He doesn't jump in and out range like Ali did in his prime. He doesn't set many traps. He hasn't got particularly good footwork and he's got a poor defence. He gets hit a lot more than he should, fighting in the style of Roy Jones with his left arm swinging low. Foot speed and hand speed are completely different. He has got fast hands. But his feet aren't as fast, and neither are his reflexes. So overall, I can't say that he's as fast as Ali.

NeckBreaknAiken stated that Ali would have beaten Lewis, because he had blazing hand speed and footwork.

You laughed, and said "Like he did against Leon Spinks?" atsch

That was in 1978, when Ali was completely shot.

He was obviously talking about a prime version of Ali, and you must know that.

Nobody here is debating Ali vs The Vitali version of Lewis who wasn't at his best.

Haye could stop Ali? Based on the fact the Henry Cooper dropped a young version of Clay in 1963, and Frazier dropped him after the lay off?

Again, we're debating a 25 year old version of Ali at his peak. Ali survived Frazier, Foreman and Shavers all past his prime. Ali could take a punch. I agree that IF Haye had gotten the opportunity, he could have dropped him and possibly hurt him. But in my opinion, he'd never have gotten that opportunity.

You seem incapable of having an intelligent, objective debate with anyone.

 

You're ****ing ******ed for this one. Ali was never stopped in his prime so Haye would have no chance whatsoever to do that.

 

Haye couldn't beat Wladimir Klitschko ffs and got stopped by an old man.

 

Tommo,

I personally think that the only reason Vitali isn't the multiple belt holder, is just due to circumstances.

I think overall, Vitali is the better and tougher fighter of the two.

You can follow all the belts back, and see how each fighter came to obtain them.


Chris Byrd won the vacant IBF belt from Evander Holyfield in 2002.

Then Wlad beat Byrd for the belt in 2006.


Valuev won the Vacant WBA belt against Ruiz in 2008.

Then lost it to Haye in 2009.

Wlad then beat Haye in 2011.


So Wlad obtained his two main belts by beating Byrd and Haye.


Vitali won the vacant WBC belt against Sanders in 2004, and still has it to this day.


But I'm absolutely certain, that if Vitali had fought Haye first, he'd have beaten him and won the WBA. Apparently, Wlad got the opportunity because he won a coin toss.

So Vitali could now be holding the WBC and WBA.


As for helping, they've both helped each other I guess, but Vitali more so.

Vitali never rematched Byrd, and Wlad beat him in 2006.

But Vitali avenged Wlad's defeats to Puritty and Sanders.


Also, Vitali had to take 4 years out. We don't know what would have happened had he kept fit and been active. :good

 

Im trying to enjoy my whisky here while i listen to some jazz tunes and this is the **** i have to put up with....

 

Calling someone a f'n ****** on a sports board is ******ed. It makes it look like you have no comeback and are some keyboard warrior :tong

Yeah Ali was never stopped in his prime. Marciano never lost. Do you think the Rock, as great as he was p4p, would beat Ali straight up?

Ali never fought modern HW comp in his prime. Most were CWs or very small HWs by todays standards. Haye would have no chance :blood He'd have a helluva chance and I'd put a big bet on Haye in such a match - which we will never see.

Btw, here's something else you can consider since you're so bright :roll:
Where are all the lean 6'3" 210+lb HWs (Ali of early 70s) these days? There are many more ppl now than 40+ years ago and boxing is much more of a world sport now. Currently there's hardly even a top contender of that size from anywhere: N or S Am, Europe, Africa... :think

 

Liston would have beat the **** out of Haye. Patterson would have KO'd haye. Haye really isn't that great of a heavyweight and he didn't do anything to prove he was a great heavyweight or on Ali's level. Give me a break.

and no, Haye wasn't faster than Ali, didn't have Ali's durability, combinations, accuracy, intelligence, you name it. He hits harder than Ali that's about it. He was dropped by cruiserweights when he was young and still developing as a fighter. Haye was stopped by f*cking Tony Thompson if you want to bring up early fights that don't mean much.

 

Crikey the voting is close.

Head to head I think Lewis at his absolute best beats anyone. Ali runs him closets of anyone though.

 

Liston was too slow to "beat the ****" out of Haye. In Liston's era he was a "monster" at 210 lbs :yep today he'd be a small HW and a plodding one at that. If Haye fought a careless fight he might get tagged and lose to Liston, that's Liston's only chance. Haye UDs or stops Liston at least 4 of 5 times /// Patterson? :nut had as much or more of a glass jaw than Haye. DH is 20+ lbs bigger than prime Patterson, about as fast, and has a bigger punch. Haye beats Patterson 9-10 of 10, nearly all by KO.

Haye is about as fast as Ali but w/more power. You're comparing Ali's durability, etc vs the CWs and small HWs he fought most of his career.
What basis - besides utter bias - do you have to say Ali had better combos, accuracy, or intelligence than Haye. Considering how many CWs went the distance or many rounds w/Ali I'd say his combos must have been mostly of the "shoe shine" variety - which is what they were. In quiet, non promoting moments Ali admitted that he wasn't a big puncher in his era! Today he'd be a feather fisted HW.

Outside of Ali's child like rhymes, there is no basis to say he was more intelligent than Haye - in or out of the ring. I'd wager Haye, the K bros, and LL were all more intelligent than Ali, which is hardly saying much. Ali had a gift of self promotion and marketing - fueled by the media - no doubt about that.

 

6"0 190 lbs soft chinned Patterson would KO Haye? Haye would run circles around Patterson and shatter his glass jaw without taking a single punch himself.

It's one thing to pay respect to the greats of past eras, it's another to be completely oblivious to the facts. No athletes from 50 years ago compare well to their modern day counterparts. NONE, boxers included.

 

LOL.

Holmes schooled him. He had way tougher fights in the 80s. He got his experience against apparently inferior fighters? that doesn't make sense though glover. Given that Holmes himself has said that 80s fighter were compete and also dominant. I'll take the word of a man who fought in both.

Again Foreman has said fighters in his era would not only compete they would be champion, who is better to make an assesment? how can you disprove what he says? its impossible, so again your assumptions have been proven wrong.

lol. Vitali was a substitute for Kirk Johnson. He dropped the belt before facing Vitali, so what are you talking about? Lennox ducked Byrd. Again your assumptions have been proven wrong.

When you think about Lennox didn't even care about the fight, he really did beat a prime Vitali at his worst lol

He might not be regarded as a big puncher but they respected his power,even Bowe. He Hurt Lennox with 1 punch. KO'd Mike Tyson. He hurt Lennox with 1 or 2 punches while Vitali couldn't KO a Lewis who was standing right in front of him..

After Sam Peter 1 he hasn't fought anyone that like that type of fighter and if a fighter like that wants to fight they give it to Vitali. If Wladimir is as agile as you say he wouldn't have looked so bad against pressure fighters because a agile fighter style supersedes a pressure fighter,look at boxing history.
Some reason Peters got a shot after beating absolutely nobodies, the legacy of Wladimir Klitschko.

Wladimir trainer "I'm glad we aren't fighting Dereck Chisora"

Chisora use to be fighting for legacy,after losing to Vitali and David Haye hes now fighting more for money then anything.

 

Liston slow? Play his fights side by side and his speed is just as fast if not faster then any other fighter..lame

 

prime lewis knocked out 2 times by rahman and mcall and had his **** pushed in by ray mercer. Ali never scratched in his prime. Ali beats the dog **** out of him

 

Patterson is regarded as the quickest and who beat him?
Wladimir could hardly hit Haye
Lennox ducked Byrd

 

Yeah and imagine how much harder it would be if Haye didn't have a broken toe.