A question. Is it easier to analyze Lennox's fights or Marciano's, Dempsey's and the likes of Frazier's when imagining how match ups between the two would go? For example, did Lennox fight more 5'10'ish swarmers or did the three deal with more superheavy weight sized fighters? ------------------------------------------------------------------ Some comparison's I can draw. Lennox fought some extremely hard hitting 5'10 punchers in Mike Tyson and David Tua. Throw in 5'9 Justin Fortune if you want another come forward hard hitting puncher who was at a huge disadvantage against Lennox, but obviously nothing compared to Tyson or Tua. Tyson had a 71' inch reach, Tua a 70' inch one. Near criminal compared to Lennox's 80 inch plus reach. And Marciano's was shorter than either. The very shortest of any HW Champ's at 68' inches. Lennox was able to, especially in Tua's case when he was closer to his prime, easily avoid incoming leaping hooks and other punches again and again do to a combination of good mobility, sheer size and his own massive reach which kept Tua at bay. Lennox showed the ability to do this for 12 rounds. And he did it well. --------------------------------------------------------------- Another issue with Lennox vs. smaller swamers. He had a really, really bad (Or good depending on your views) habit of holding fighters behind the head. It didn't matter if he was nearly knocking the 7' inch shorter Tyson to the mat by crushing him with his weight on the back of his neck or leaning on the 6'7 Micheal Grant. He tired fighters out doing this even more so than Ali did Frazier in their second fight. Lennox WAS a 245-250 pound man.
Some thoughts from the swarmer's side. Dempsey absolutely destroyed a 6'6 giant with a 84' inch reach in Fred Fulton. KO'ed him in one round. That's actually a one inch longer reach than the 6'5 Lennox Lewis. Jess Willard himself was a 6'6 1/2 giant with a identical (83' inch) Lennox Lewis reach. I'm not sure if being large had any benefits against Dempsey or just made you a bigger target for him to hit.
Another Dempsey match vs. a super heavyweight where he went on a seek and destroy mission. Carl Morris was 6'4, and extremely durable. Over 20 losses, and only 5 stoppages against him. Most very late in his career. Dempsey knocked him out with the first punch he threw. One to the body.
Dempsey would be the only "swarmer" that I would give a chance against a prime Lewis. He was fast enough with hands and feet to annoy and evade Lewis' jab and right hand and had the power to finish the job if he can land on him enough. Plus his bob and weave style would aid him against a taller foe. With that being said I still lean toward Lennox in this one though not by a whole lot.
1. Bigger target? Is his head twice as big therefore easier to hit? NO but his head is harder to hit because it is kept at further range because of the reach keeping Dempsey/small swarmer at long range 2. Those fighters you mention lack the jab 1-2 boxing skill to keep Dempsey at range Lennox does not. On top of that they simply weren't very good, Lennox is another beast entirely
From what I've read Fred Fulton had an excellent Jab, a killer right hand and a great Jab/right hand combo. He was also one of the very best heavyweights of the era. He was only 4'4", though, so Lennox was a bit taller. Lennox was also heavier, and had a much better chin.
I agree with those saying Dempsey has the best chance against Lewis of all the great swarmers. This is such an interesting clash of...well, everything. Styles, sizes, eras. These two are like night and day. I honestly can't make up my mind on this one, but I lean towards Lennox slightly.
Well without footage i'd be very skeptical towards those claims. I've read many reports of Johnson being this great jabber and boxer, but film clearly shows he doesn't. They had a primitive style for gloved boxing back then. By the way, while Dempsey should be mentioned among swarmers, at 6'1 he wasn't THAT small, which obviously helped him reach Willard's chin. Those two/three inches help a lot when you have to go up to a 6'5" mountain of a man.
Well, without film, there's really nothing else to put stock into when it comes to evaluation Fulton's style. And yeah, Dempsey was a big man for his era, yet he chose to fight small often. Maybe it was a habit he developed early on when he was just a kid fighting bigger, older me? At any rate, it was a habit that would service him greatly in a fight with Lennox.
I agree here. Dempsey, Marciano etc. are just not big enough to compete realistically. Frazier...I don't know...I battle to see how Joe could win. Of course, one never knows. Tyson to me is the only one of the group with sufficient size, power, speed etc. to pull off a win.
Frazier 'could' theoretically win late, but I can't help but think that becuase of the fact he's a slow starter Lennox will come out of the blocks ala Golota and Ruddock fights and finish matters early, instead of boxing safe. I reckon he would look to do exactly that knowing that if Frazier is still there through the mid-rounds he'd be in for a very long, tough night. I think Joe lasts about three or four rounds, then the ref steps in.
It seems like a bold statement considering this is Smokin' Joe Frazier we're talking about, but I think you're right; it's quite possible the fight is stopped early.
Tyson has the best chance I agree with you and I'd pick him over Lewis. But Marciano, and Dempsey would be game all the way and Lewis would have to be at his absolute best to win. Keep in mind Lewis would probably be hesitant to engage them, just like he gave a nearly shot Tyson a huge amount of respect. You will need more than just a jab and some movement to beat a prime Marciano and Dempsey unlike Tua, and thet Tyson he fought, and I think Lewis would be in severe danger. He sometimes pushed for the early KO but that was against giants like Grant, Golota, and Ruddock. Against Tua, Tyson etc. he was very hesitant relying on his jab to soften his opponent up. While this was undoubtably successful, against a prime Marciano, Dempsey, Frazier he would need to open up with more and Lewis didn't have the strongest chin or best stamina to fight hard for 15, even over 12 he could start to fold to a Frazier, or Marciano.