1. Basically he underestimated him and was clowning a bit when he got caught (for the second time in that round), it was a fluke loss 2. Lewis still doesn't rate Rahman to this day 3. It was a clean KO, but other than the 2 shots in the first fight Lennox won every miniute of both fights. Lennox said himself that can happen in the HW division especially when you fight the punchers he did time on time, neither Bowe/Holyfield/Tyson of any HW fought the number of big punchers Lewis did 4. No Tyson probably loses to Holyfield, but beats Ruiz/Byrd/Rahman, because styles make fights. You need the chin/defense and power to beat Tyson, even that Tyson. Need I remind you of Ruiz and Byrd's brutal KOs to Tua and Ibeaubuchi around that period. BTW did you know Don King paid LEwis to discard the WBA belt so Ruiz and Holyfield fight could be called a world title fight? Ruiz never called Lennox out and was happy being a bauble titlist Although I think the Lennox fights took allot out of Holyfield 5. Bowe got a gift against Tubbs and beat Coetzer, Coetzer isnt better than Golota he got dominated by Bruno too in the same year and never mixed in the top class otherwise How many title challengers in the last 20years has beaten someone better than Golota for a title shot? How many have beaten someone in the top5 in the last 20years for a title shot? (which is what you're expecting of Mike) Lewis is the only 1 I can think of 6. Umm what chance do Ruiz/Byrd have against Lewis? Why dont we look who they lost to, Rahman was sparked by Maskeev, Ruiz was sparked in 30 seconds by Tua, Byrd was sparked by Ibeaubuchi. If those fighters can do that what would the bigger hitting, faster more skilled Tyson do to them? Nevermind Lewis 7. Why dont you tell us how Vitali badly deserved a title shot after having only beat Bean, Purrity, Norris and Hoffman in that time frame, while quiting against Byrd. Seriously those names arent as good as Golota/Savarese and Norris is a quiting Tyson leftover 8. Stayed up till 4am hoping for a Tyson victory, some patriotic **** at work was giving me **** for asking 'who do you want to win prior to the bout' and really rubbed it in on Monday
It looked real enough to me. Does that errase the fact that he lost to him? " The two shots " that McCall laned in that first fight, were better than anything Lewis did in both bouts combined. The second fight was one of the most bizarre showings in boxing history. You had a guy enter the ring that had never before been stopped, nor ever would again, had been a sparring partner for Mike Tyson for years, and who sparked Lewis in thier last bout. All of a sudden out of nowhere, he begins breaking down in tears and for no apparent reason.. He was also following an episode of extreme erratic behavior just days earlier, and a long period in drug rehab.. Bottom line, Lewis's rematch with McCall cannot be compared even remotely in the same context as the first fight...No way, no how.. James Douglas wasn't known for having a chin either, and frankly I think Ruiz's was better than most. king did a lot of things to manipulate the game, for his own gain. Tyson was among many of his show dogs that benefitted from this as well. ie, what the hell was bruce Seldon doing with the WBA title in 1996? Holyfield was past his prime long before he ever fought Lewis. Let's not pretend that Lennox was in their with a pinnacle version of the real deal. That fight was close enough to where it could have gone either way, but not to the extent where I would have deemed it a robbery or a gift. Had Tubbs gotten that win, just as many people would be sitting here 18 years later saying how Bowe was robbed in that match, and how fat old Tubbs had gotten a lucky break. It probably would have been viewed in the same or similar context of say Foreman vs Stewart -an equally close fight. At any rate, Bowe was still nearly 10 fights away from winning the title, so I don't see how a single close performance against a FORMER WORLD CHAMPION during his prospect days holds much relevance. What chance did Rahman or McCall have? Who beat Lewis.
4. No Tyson probably loses to Holyfield, but beats Ruiz/Byrd/Rahman, because styles make fights. You need the chin/defense and power to beat Tyson, even that Tyson. Need I remind you of Ruiz and Byrd's brutal KOs to Tua and Ibeaubuchi around that period. It wasnt around that period really, and Tyson was no Tua that fought Ruiz or Ibeabuchi that fought Byrd. Ruiz more than proved he was capable of competing with all the very same fighters with good solid victories within the group. Who knows it could have well been just as much as fluke knockout as Rahmans over Lewis? He was never Ko'd like that ever again. Tua on the other hand was outboxed by Rahman who eventaully lost to Ruiz! BTW did you know Don King paid LEwis to discard the WBA belt so Ruiz and Holyfield fight could be called a world title fight? Ruiz never called Lennox out and was happy being a bauble titlist Only because of Lewis' refusal to fight Ruiz, and yes Ruiz called out Lennox Lewis many times, Lewis just refused to fight him just like he did Byrd. I dont know too many champions who go around discarding their belts for money just so others could fight for a title. If you read most of the posts on this board about heavyweights ditching titles, it would appear most did it because they were ducking a certain opponent? Although I think the Lennox fights took allot out of Holyfield In what way? They werent rough fights, in fact I would say Lewis fought a very passive fight both times, mainly from the outside, to secure a 12 round victory. 5. Bowe got a gift against Tubbs and beat Coetzer, Coetzer isnt better than Golota he got dominated by Bruno too in the same year and never mixed in the top class otherwise What does the Tubbs fight have to do with anything? That was 7 or 8 fights before the Coetzer fight. Tubbs was a more than adequate challenge for a young up and coming fighter with only 2 losses and being a former titleist. Coetzer actually fought his way into contention, Golota fouled and lost his way in. . Umm what chance do Ruiz/Byrd have against Lewis? Why dont we look who they lost to, Rahman was sparked by Maskeev, Ruiz was sparked in 30 seconds by Tua, Byrd was sparked by Ibeaubuchi. If those fighters can do that what would the bigger hitting, faster more skilled Tyson do to them? Nevermind Lewis Ruiz eventually beat Lewis conquerer Rahman. Again Tua Ruiz was a long time ago and Ruiz more than proved he was capable on the same level as all those guys you mentioned. Byrd certainly presented more of a challenge than Kirk Johnson who Ruiz beat, and who was originally scheduled to face Lewis and why Lewis vacated his title.
Not to me, and I don't think that's what people refer to when they say shot. I guess there's a shot physically and mentally for some people?
He got hit and KO'd. Dropping his hands and smiling/sticking his face out were part of his style. It doesn't excuse the loss. Nothing "fluke" about it. Nor do I. Rahman was mediocre and he knocked Lewis out. However, in 2001/'02 Rahman deserved to be rated high among that year's heavyweights. He got knocked out by one punch from Hasim Rahman in their first fight, when he was world champion and number 1 in the world, that's all we need to say. You're trying to qualify it, and make excuses, why ? We're talking about 2001/'02 Ruiz got KO'd by Tua in March 1996 ! Actually, the night before Tyson beat Bruno ............... which was Tyson's last win over a proper top fighter ! It's 5 - 6 years before the time period we're discussing. Byrd's loss to Ibeaubuchi was in March 1999, but he went 9-1 after that up to the end of 2001, losing only to Wlad Klitschko, and with wins over Vitali klitschko and David Tua. If Tyson beats Ruiz/Byrd/Rahman why was he fighting the likes of Brian Nielsen ? It's okay saying he "could have", but there's little basis in reality. People were still saying Tyson could be champion when Lewis retired, up to - and even after - he got beaten by Danny Williams. Yes. I dont hold that against Lewis at all. Still, Ruiz proved tougher against Holyfield than Tyson could have ever hoped to be. And seeing as Holyfield had given Lewis his hardest, closest fight of anyone in the 1997 - 2000 period, Ruiz earns himself a good ranking by his performances against Holyfield. Yeah, of course you do. I think Holyfield was clearly past his best way before the Lewis fights, and declined steadily from around '93 onwards. He's been in many wars, and the Lewis ones were not really up their with his toughest most gruelling fights, IMO. Bowe is irrelevant to the discussion. We're talking about fighters who were active in 2001-'02 Golota was nothing special so I dont understand the question. :huh Rahman beat Sanders the same year as Tyson beat Golota, which I'm not saying was better, but it's on a par. Golota was already discredited with the Grant and Lewis performances. I dont even have to go on the last 20 years, I can stick to the years in question. I already said in my previous post to you that I'm NOT saying Tyson didn't deserve a shot at all - he just wasn't a seriously "live" or proven threat. He was just an old guy hanging on in the rankings fighting other downhill "contenders" and B and C-grade opponents. That's a fairly simple point, and it's undeniably true. It's just empty talk now. Ruiz and Byrd were more deserving than Tyson. Ruiz and Byrd had come back from those defeats with wins over top fighters - which is exactly what you dont think Tyson needed to do ! Ruiz had beaten and floored Holyfield. Byrd had outboxed Tua very impressively. Tua and Holyfield were both top fighters at the time, who went the distance with Lewis just a year before they were beaten by Byrd and Ruiz. Those are the facts. 2001 facts. I dont have to spin it at all. Ruiz beat Holyfield, Byrd beat Tua, and all you have to answer with is "Tyson would have .....", "Tyson could have ........ " Whatever. But Tyson didn't do ****. That's the point. I never said Vitali deserved a shot, but he would have been a reasonable opponent for Tyson to prove his credentials with. He'd only quit once. Golota was already on one outright quit, and two outright deliberate DQs. And a 90 second blow-out against Lewis. Vitali would have been a tough fight and test for Tyson, a strong, young, opponent. That's what I meant.
Mike Tyson's only ring appearance in the 19 months prior to him fighting Lewis was this one against Brian Nielsen. I think he looks worse in this one than he'd ever looked before : [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oVDUvyQhn0&feature=related[/ame] That's the Mike Tyson I'm fairly certain would have been beaten by the likes of Byrd, Rahman, even John Ruiz. At that time. He looks almost dreadful. Nielsen is a very stationary target and Tyson gets to tee off on him from the opening bell onwards, and still looks shabby in doing so.
