Leon Spinks challenges Mikey Tyson, both prime.

Being a Holmes fan is a little bit easier tho. I'm a huge Holmes fan as well, but for Leon I have to explain a lot of stuff. Michael was great too.

 

Hmmmm....Leon Spinks vs Mike Tyson, both in their prime - who wins?

If its a Golden Boy Promo, then I think Canelo wins on points.

 

Leon fought one style.

 

Spinks was one dimensional. The impact Coetzee's right hand was having was immense. Leon was never hard to hit.

Are you implying the reason Ali lost FOTC is because he slugged instead of boxed?

 

As to your question regarding Ali, yes and no. Had Ali boxed, rather than lay on the ropes covering up, he would have been better off and may have come closer to keeping the title. However, at his age, trying to box Leon would be difficult, esp. since Leon was just a forward-moving stalker like Liston. Really though, if Ali had tried to box Leon, it only would have made Ali fare better in the fight. There was no way Ali could have won the fight. He was getting old and he was out of shape, and he was up against a young, strong fighter who probably wasn't going to lose to anybody on that night. I doubt Ali could have salvaged a draw at his best that night. At his best, maybe he could have won a legitimate split decision.

 

You didn't read what i put up again.

FOTC is Ali vs Frazier 1, not Ali vs Leon.

 

Ughhh! Not again?! Sorry 'bout that, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or anything. Even though Ali slugged with Frazier, I think even if he had boxed Frazier the way he did in the Super Fight II, that he still would have lost. Frazier was wrong for Ali and couldn't be beaten that night.

 

All good Will.

 

I'm glad you're so generous. I really think all of the greatest heavyweights with a boxing style would play right into Joe's hands. At least the first time. I have Joe beating Jersey Joe Walcott, Larry Holmes, and Holyfield all in prime for prime contests, at least once.

 

Tyson somewhere between Marvis and Mike S.

 

Good reply William Walker!

I tried to find a post you made regarding the competition of Tyson elsewhere.
You mentioned a number of his better wins in the 1980's, but dismissed them as "getting old".
First, if you look at their recent & overall records, they were excellent overall.
His run during his prime & when champion was very good indeed.
Especially considering the frequencies of bouts.

But some of them were not remotely old.
Biggs was 26, Bruno 27 when they first fought, you can look up the rest.
Methinks you do not know his prime opponents well.

 

I believe I do; I consider Berbick, Smith, Tucker, Biggs, Bruno, and Williams all prime fighters. However, I do have problems w/ a few of these wins. With Smith, of course, they both looked like they couldn't fight a lick. Also, the Williams fight was a premature stoppage. I believe his wins over Berbick, Biggs, and Bruno were the best of the 80s, since they were all prime fighters with no excuses and Tyson beat them. The Tucker fight, while certainly less notable, was good to me to see Tyson pushed the 12-round limit and prevail in relatively tough contest. His other big wins, over Thomas, Holmes, Spinks, and Tubbs, though they comprise several of his greatest performances ever, I write those wins off as less credible since they were all old, and Tubbs was also in bad shape. This isn't me being tacky though. Tbh, if Tyson faced all of these men in their primes, the only one I could say without a doubt that he couldn't beat would be Holmes. I don't hate Tyson, contrary to what many believe.

 

I do not doubt that you are fair minded & not a Tyson hater.
I appreciate that you think Tyson could beat all except Holmes-& I think Tyson would have the stylistic advantage as a modified swarmer & beat him too.

But Mr. Walker, you first said that all of the fighters you named were old.
I showed you that Boggs & Bruno were 26 & 27 respectively. You did not acknowledge you error.
Now you describe just a few of the previously mentioned fighters were old.
But Spinks & Tubbs ha recently turned 32. Thomas was 31.

These are not old fighters.
They had all been very succesful in recent fights with topflight records.
You can say that Spinks was fairly inactive & had the leg problem, but that is a different issue.

If you dismiss people even in their early 30's as "old"-despite having an excellent recent & overall record, you will have to critique the pre-& during championship runs of virtually all other top fighters-even more.
These "old men" above had from zero to 2 losses in their whole careers.

Please rethink the dismissal of his pugilistic efforts William.
It is very rare for champions to have unambiguously prime vs. prime victories.
Take virtually all say HW greats, certainly recent ones, they had what are considered acceptable to excellent wins over fighters who usually had a worse record-& were often older than 32, sometimes much older.

 

To me "old" for a fighter is really relative. I've noticed that when the majority of fighters get past 34 or 35 they are getting up there, and 38 is the typically magic number when they've definitively passed it.

But some rebound; look at Holmes and Foreman. Larry looked all washed up against Iron Mike, then astonished everybody by beating Mercer and giving both Holy and McCall good fights in his 40s.

 

If I failed to mention Berbick, Bruno, Biggs, etc. as being young, then I must assure you it was unintentional. While I do find Tyson overrated, these were all great wins for him.
As for Thomas, Tubbs, etc., early 30s is approaching old, but with the instance of Thomas, I guess what I meant was not so much that he was physically old, but that he was clearly diminishing in skill ever since the Berbick fight.
Although I have used the win over Holmes for instance, against Tyson, since Holmes was so old it was kind of a meaningless win, I still think Tyson looked great. He looked great vs. Spinks and Thomas too. Really, I just look at boxing with this thought: Greats' early careers will be built off of old greats. Like Ali. Looking at his record, Moore, Patterson I, Williams, Folley. Given their ages, and Patterson' back injury, these wins seem meaningless, and while they do take away from the victory somewhat they still stand as great performances. It's just part of boxing. Same with Monzon.