Leonard - Best Boxer In Last 30 Yrs

Well you've certainly hooked Rooster

 

Rooster,

Why are you damn critical of Leonard? I'm not trying to start a heated debate here, but I'm just curious as to why you have such a bone to pick with him. Okay, I suppose we could all make criticisms if we wanted to. I agree that Leonard lost his rematch with Hearns. I also think the Hagler fight was very close, but do you really feel that these are reasons to deny him all time great status? The guy was a gold medalist, he beat a very good fighter in Wilfred Benitez. He was behind on points against another all time great in Thomas Hearns, but came back to beat him by stoppage. He came back from a hard fought loss against Duran to beat him twice after. The Hagler fight could have gone either way in terms of a decision, but Leonard was rerturning from a long layoff. The Don Lalonde win wasn't too bad either.

What seems to be the big problem?

 

Good list but you forgot Hagler and Duran.

 

I seriously have to question weather or not you actually saw this fight, and even more pertinantely if you've actually viewed real footage of Leonard at his best. Leonard was exhausted by the later rounds of that fight. His reflexes and reaction time was noticeably gone. When I watched that fight on showtime back in 1991, Dr. Ferdie Pacheco even commented that he looked like a shell of his former self, and some of the fans were even chanting " stop the fight ". In your opinion, could this version of Leonard possibly have come back from behind in 1980 to beat Thomas Hearns, especially in the 14th round of a scheduled 15?

Now I find this interesting, because Simon Brown moved up to Jr. Middle, and creamed the livin' crap out of Norris. Brown had decent speed, but by that point in his career was not exactly a lightening bolt when it came time to quickness.

What was your take on this fight ( as you saw it )?

 

They both turned pro before 1976. Otherwise, they'd likely be included.

 

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I'm not being critical of Leonard. As Thad Spencer says, leonard was good-damn good. Maybe even an all time great, but not the top fighter of the 80's let alone the last 30 years. So I can't give him credit that doesn't beong to him. It would bother my conscience.

 

Everyone who knows me knows that I am a fan of only the best so if Leonard was the best I would also be a fan of his. but the resume is lacking and too many false retirements. you know what that means.

No that is not what I said. I said that Duran of the second fight melted off 40+ pounds according to Randy Gordon and I have no doubt whatsoever that' he's telling the truth. He said that Leonard rushed him into the rematch knowing that Duran was in need of money. I would have told leonard and his ghetto managers to go **** themselves, and that he needed me more than I needed him especially since I just beat the pants off of him and that I would take as long as I felt to get the weight off.

Duran for the rubber match had no such problem with a weight drop of 40 pounds.

what difference does it make who the opponent is if you can you demonstrate that you can do it for 12 rounds without letup. just remember why the audience was booing that night. you can't change the fact that leonard-duran 3 was a blowout, that Ray won all 12 rounds, that he did it in the usual way by boxing and being up on his toes and that in no way did he resemble the Ali of 1976 who took punishment like a punching bag.

He is one of the all time greats. he's just not what Terry Norris was. He's on a throne too, only a little lower.

Please don't compare Leonard with Robinson. that's a joke. Robbie gave rematches and didn't set ridiculous conditions to meet him at these absurd weights. You really don't have enough performances from leonard wheras Robinson performed many times a year.

it may have been beautiful performance I won't dissagree but the Norris fight forever tarnished him.

 

They would of... both top 5.

 

what second fight? it was a farce the no mas fight. duran never turned up. ray is in my top 5 based on his short prime, but great prime. everything about his late 80's comeback was a farce. even though he barely beat hagler in my eyes.

hagler was past it and leonard had so many advantages in his favour like the bigger rings, gloves, 12 round limit and others. don't get me started on the donny lalonde fight. that was a farce.

there's no way that any knowledgable boxing fan could call ray a five weight world champion. he is a 3 weight champion at best. arguably a two weigh as the hagler fight was a bit of a farce

My top 5 for the last 30 years is:

Duran: Still great in 1977 - June 1980. put in a few of his best performances against de jesus, palomino and leonard. also got to be given great credit foir his performance against hagler

Chavez: Long unbeaten streak against high quality opposition and legit 3 weight world champion

Hagler: Long reigning middleweight champion who really made his bones before winning a title

Ray Leonard: Greatest talent of the last 30 years. beat 2 of the best boxers of the last 30 years during his short career in thomas hearns and wilfred benitez

Thomas Hearns: legitimate champion at 5 weights. Could of been higher if he had of got the rematches that he would of got if he had of come along 30 years before

 

Last time i checked the fight i saw Duran, large as life getting outboxed and outsped. Must have been dreaming.

Or should i say the real SRL didn't turn up for the first one and some imposter hellbent on planting his feet and outfighting Duran as opposed to outboxing him did.

:hey

 

I do not want to go over this again and again but...

The second Leonard - Duran fight was Duran's 73rd fight. After just 39 fights Leonard was outclassed by Terry Norris and stopped in his 40th. Tigeredge's points are right on the mark.

 

And 73 fights in Maxie Rosenbloom's manager suggested he stepped up to 6 rounders, what has that got to do with the price of bread?

 

Check the greats's records they almost always decline with the more fights they have.