Leonard Does NOT Deserve To Be Recognized As 5 Divison Champ!!

i dont think anyone is going to come out and say he was champion in five divisions, not even his biggest fans. If they do they know they're doing wrong and end up losing credibility

even three titles is quite questionable

 

That sums up my opinion on him entirely.

Some people put Ray Leonard in the top 5 of all time, and I can see why, but he just breaks my top 20 for the reasons you said.

If he'd beaten Hagler two years earlier, or gone up and faced Spinks, I think he would make my top 3, no doubt (Post-War that is)

But the LaLonde thing was a joke, and anyway, Spinks would've slaughtered Ray.

 

Lets get it straight for ANY boxer.


Title counting is just ridiculous now with all those divisions and champions. IMO it is no longer pertinent and hasn't been since Arguello's attempt at Pryor's title. Even that was so so given junior divisions. Look at what an Armstrong or SRR would have done under that umbrella.

Hearns and Leonard's titles at 168 don't count for **** if counting and IMO the division doesn't count anyways. Certainly Ray did not win one at 175.

Unless someone comes along and beats the best title holder in many divisions i have no interest. The chance of this happening are almost nil.

 

I think we need to remember that when Ray was fighting the likes of Donny, Spinks was 3 1/2 years into the heavyweight ranks. Even when Ray fought Hagler Spinks was long gone. Actually Leonard taking on Hagler was at least akin to Hagler having a go at Spinks. More so really.

Obviously Ray would never have taken on Spinks under any circumstances but Hagler was sure hiding from him too. He'd mop both up one after the other in whatever order then have Hearns and Duran for dessert.

 

Sorry, just going by the theory that Leonard's injuries and then cherry piccking meant he deliberately waited out on Hagler for years.

Had he taken Hagler a few years earlier and then stepped it up to LHW (when there wasn't even a SMW title so Leonard could make even more excuses)

But I think Spinks being up there was another reason Ray didn't want to put himself in the mix at MW, there would be calls for him to come up.

I like Leonard as a fighter in his prime, but I don't think he beat Hagler, and I think, a bit like Floyd JR (although Floyd has no win of the magnitude of Prime Hearns or WW Benitez on his resume) Leonard could've had a better resume with the talent he had.

Like I say, it looks great now, but with that sort of ability, it feels like a waste still.

 

If he'd beaten Hagler and then gone up and beaten Spinks (which of course would never happen) he would hands down be my nr. 1 p4p of all times. The things is, some would still found a way to say that not only Hagler was past it, but also Spinks. That I can guarantee.

 

Of course. But that version of Hagler would've spanked Ray, and even if Ray did manage to pull it off, Spinks would've....well, it's not worth thinking about

 

In 1940s money Leonard is a two division champion.

Genuine three division champions are as rare as hens teeth.

 

I suppose claiming that he is a genuine 5 division champ is a bit of a stretch, but I still think he got a reasonably good win against Lalonde.

 

A half-decent win, but basically proved little more than a great fighter will usually beat a big soft lemon. Lalone would only have been champ in the "at least three title holders per division and fighting for vacant title vs has-been" era. Still, it's a tad underrated I'd say.

 

I agree.

Don't think its any worse a win than Hearns over Andries really.

 

Hahaha, good point.

 

This one is open to debate and we will never really know 100% IMO.

Leonard was never taking on Hagler then stepping it up to 175. There also would not have been calls for him to come up to 175 even if he beat Hagler. We are forgetting just how small the man was, he was the definition of the perfectly natural 147 pound fighter. He was a very small middleweight really. Ray fighting Spinks would not have been thought to be realistic even for his most devoted fans. Moving up to fight Hagler was his Mount Everest.

Man, his resume would be mighty scary if it was even better. I thought he put on a clinic vs Hagler myself. I just can't see how Leonard's resume could have been that much better. Fought Duran, immediate rematch, fought Benitez, unified with Hearns to signal his dominance over the 147 pound division, won a bit title at 154 (He'd already beat the main holder at 147) and late career came back to beat Hagler, who hadn't been beaten in a million years and had umpteen title defenses in a row. I mean who has 4 wins better than Leonard's best?

Wins over Duran, Benitez, Hearns and Hagler have me thinking different on this one. He was about to fight Pryor when the eye operation came thru and he quit boxing. Shooting down the Hawk (And he would have believe me) would have been nice for the victory sheet but one can hardly blame a man with his money and accomplishment from retiring. We read all the time he waited and all this **** but the fact is a vast amount of boxers get that itch and come on back years later. Ali, Holmes and a million others. I highly commend Hagler and Michael Spinks on their good clean retirements. They retired at the perfect time and never came back.

 

And that's about it. Even Arguello was a two timer. Duran is probably a genuine 3.

 

How many times did Leonard defend his titles?,

It's all well and good to say he would of beaten this guy or that guy, but when you defend your title you get matched up with diferent styles, and some that you might have trouble with, not to say he would of lost, but thats why they get in the ring and not just declare the winner by who was the more talented.