Leonard v Hagler at 160 in the early-mid 80s - please vote and comment

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Jun 2, 2009.


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  1. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just like I was telling BrownPimp

    GDG you are trying to downplay this man's remarkable achievements like they never happened. I know you dont like to acknowledge the fact that Terry holds the record for title defenses

    He has proven to be the champion of champions by beating 12 of them-all of them convincingly.

    he whipped Ray leonard by winning every round at a time he wasnt supposed to even hear the final bell. At a time Leonard was most experienced, having won five titles and on an 11 year win streak and off his most dominating performance in years. And no layoffs. IMO, you could not beat a man more convincingly than what Terry Norris did to Ray leonard to win a decision

    Look at you guys. You see ray get a split decision over Hagler then go all ape**** over it. I see the way the newspaper reporters celebrating over it. Just becuz he gets a split decision over some guy who is completely used up.

    at least you people scale it down now to "Even if Hagler was past his best it was still a remarkable win" acting like Hagler could take any OTHER middleweight out there

    That is not what Antuofuermo say on ESPN before the fight. Vito knows Hagler better than some stupid ray leonard fan trying to pass themself off as an expert. Vito knows exactly what Hagler have left. not like those ignorant leonard people who act like they know.

    I dont need some ignorant ray leonard fan telling me what Hagler have left. I seen hagler in training before the fight and what Vito has said matches up with what i see happen. Vito, the man who has faced Hagler in the ring, unlike any ray Leonard fan you will ever meet, said before the fight that Hagler would have lost to any of the contenders he previously faced and that includes Hearns, Duran, Roldan, Sibson, Lee, Scypion, Obel, Vito, Hamsho

    I bet a 35 year old Bennie Briscoe could have beat Hagler that night.

    What does a Ray leonard fan know about Hagler? I know Hagler fans know about Leonard but I dont think Leonard fan really knows about Hagler. 2 fights and that's it.

    they take the 4 fights leonard's been in and compare them with the 2 fights they seen Hagler in and say he's done more with his career :lol:

    In reality tho, people like Hagler and Norris have done better and more with their careers than Ray leonard but some people dont want to face the facts so out of ignorance they keep making their ignorant statements

    Ray leonard with his zero defenses at 154. :-( even at 147, Terry's accomplishments still exceed Ray's

    If you think he is so terrible a fighter then why is he in the hall of fame?
     
    redrooster, Jun 13, 2009
    redrooster, Jun 13, 2009
    #166
  2. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    redrooster, Jun 13, 2009
    redrooster, Jun 13, 2009
    #167
  3. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    :verysad
     
    Addie, Jun 13, 2009
    Addie, Jun 13, 2009
    #168
  4. GDG

    GDG Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Jun 2, 2009

    I never said I was a huge Leonard fan....nor did I say Norris was a terrible fighter!!

    I would debate with you but if you're just going to put words in my mouth it's not really worth it is it!?!?!?

    This is the first time I've spoken to you and somehow you've decided I love Leonard...hate Hagler...don't rate Norris...and have seen hagler fight only twice!!

    I diagreed with you but respected your opinion before...now I just think you're a clown!!! People like you are the reason I left a different site I used to post on!!!
     
    GDG, Jun 13, 2009
    GDG, Jun 13, 2009
    #169
  5. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    alright well welcome to the forum
     
    redrooster, Jun 13, 2009
    redrooster, Jun 13, 2009
    #170
  6. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    This content is protected


    AND THE NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEW!!


    This content is protected


    Rooster's reaction from his ringside seat, just seconds after the decision........................
     
    Robbi, Jun 13, 2009
    Robbi, Jun 13, 2009
    #171
  7. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    :?
     
    DINAMITA, Jun 13, 2009
    DINAMITA, Jun 13, 2009
    #172
  8. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    My argument that Duran is given the benefit of the doubt more often than not has weight. If you don't believe it, that's your business, but this isn't something I've made up. Why would I? I like Duran as a fighter, but there's a lot of double standards going on in the Classic forum regarding the fab four.
     
    Addie, Jun 13, 2009
    Addie, Jun 13, 2009
    #173
  9. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    There's a lot of double standards going on in your skull because a few haters have pissed you off.

    Ray Leonard had 12 world title fight wins, and he has 4 key wins after which his resume is very thin. And yet almost everyone I've ever seen on this forum ranks him top 15 ATG. If anything, the man is given more credit than he is due in a career sense because of the quality of those 4 wins and the quality he showed as a fighter in securing them. With such a short peak, an argument exists that he doesn't deserve to be ranked in the company of the Peps and the Charles's and the Ali's who put together enormous strings of great wins across decades and eras. But en masse this argument is rejected because of Leonard's quality.

    Are excuses made for Duran? Perhaps. Are they legitimate? I believe yes, in the majority. Duran was not like Mayweather or Calzaghe, he wasn't micro-managed, he wasn't a zero-protector, he was like Toney in a way. A passion fighter, sometimes he came to the ring in great condition and won (Leonard I, Moore, DeJesus II and III), sometimes he came to the ring in good condition and lost (DeJesus I, Hagler). But often he came to the ring in a condition that guys like Mayweather and Calzaghe would never dream of, pretty demotivated and a little out of shape - like Toney has sometimes. It's up to you whether you choose to ignore that or not. Personally I don't, because I have an affinity with the Duran and Toney mindset, but it's what you believe personally I suppose.

    Another thing you should perhaps take into consideration when you think allowances are made for Duran is that it shouldn't be ignored that he was always the older, smaller, slower man in the ring in the 1980s. The guy was a lightweight who won his first world title in 1972, he had already had his peak career in the 70s, fighting and beating the best lw's of that era. He had no business going in against the best welters, lightmiddles and middles of the 80s when he was the wrong side of 30. He was never on a level playing field. We were fortunate to have him in that era, and it was a brave and brilliant achievement that he actually managed it at all.
     
    DINAMITA, Jun 13, 2009
    DINAMITA, Jun 13, 2009
    #174
  10. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    And actually, the opposite to what you allege is true.

    Duran secured one of the very best (IMO it is THE best) wins in the history of the sport when he beat Leonard, but this magnificent achievement is often completely discredited and devalued by the blunt and stupid assertion that: "Leonard would have won if he boxed".

    It is Duran who does not get his due, if either of them don't.
     
    DINAMITA, Jun 14, 2009
    DINAMITA, Jun 14, 2009
    #175
  11. brownpimp88

    brownpimp88 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Whenever duran wins 'he's at his best', but when he gets embarassed by someone like Wilfredo Benitez he has 1 million excuses lined up. Not to mention that Benitez and Duran are pretty much the same size.
     
    brownpimp88, Jun 14, 2009
    brownpimp88, Jun 14, 2009
    #176
  12. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    **** me, the best in history! That Leonard geezer must have been some fighter then.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Jun 14, 2009
    My dinner with Conteh, Jun 14, 2009
    #177
  13. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Yeah, must have been some geezer as well. :D
     
    Robbi, Jun 14, 2009
    Robbi, Jun 14, 2009
    #178
  14. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    You wont find too many fans agreeing with this but I know you know that & I know you likely dont care :D
     
    Bill Butcher, Jun 14, 2009
    Bill Butcher, Jun 14, 2009
    #179
  15. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    That kid's parents must have found him in a lucky bag. :lol:
     
    Robbi, Jun 14, 2009
    Robbi, Jun 14, 2009
    #180
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