Leonard v Hagler at 160 in the early-mid 80s - please vote and comment

If Leonard couldn't beat Hagler in 1987, he couldn't have beaten him in 1983. Here is the way Hugh McIvanney encapsulated the injustice of the fight in an article for Sports Illustrated, aptly titled, "The illusion of Victory":

It is not only in Las Vegas that professional boxing's system of scoring shows all the intellectual consistency of a rolling pair of dice.

Don't blame the desert air for the rush of blood to the brain that caused Jose Juan (Jo Jo) Guerra, a WBC judge, to make Sugar Ray Leonard a winner by 10 rounds to 2 over Marvin Hagler while another official, Lou Filippo, was giving the April 6 fight at Caesars Palace to Hagler 7 rounds to 5. If the record of judges sanctioned by its State Athletic Commission is anything to go by, Nevada is a congenial environment for officials with the glorious eccentricity of mind brought to his work by Guerra. But bad decisions know no boundaries.

The simple truth is that at this stage of its long and erratic history, prizefighting is still nowhere near establishing any consistently accurate means of measuring performance. If the comparative effectiveness of two fighters is so difficult to calibrate (or so open to extravagantly subjective interpretations) that Guerra and Filippo can contradict each other as outrageously as they did, then even when everybody stays honest, boxing clearly carries a far higher risk of recurring injustice than any other sport.

When judges talk about focusing on paramount criteria—on identifying effective aggressiveness, clean punching, ring generalship and quality defense—they are merely emphasizing the complexity, perhaps the impossibility, of the exercise. Much of the time all they can do is review a fighter's performance, much as a theater critic would an actor's, making the pseudoscientific adjustment of putting their impressions into figures.

No one has ever understood the boxing judge as reviewer of theater better than Sugar Ray Leonard. Even Muhammad Ali, who substituted histrionics for real fighting often enough in the latter part of his career, was usually more concerned with disconcerting his opponent and getting the crowd on his side. Leonard sought those dividends too against Hagler. But the overriding priority for him appeared to be the manipulation of official minds.

Naturally, to achieve that end, Ray had to bring a lot to the party. Physically and mentally, he was astonishingly strong, sharp and resilient after what had been, essentially, a five-year layoff.

Thus, looking and moving so much better than anyone had a right to expect, Leonard was in a position to exploit the Schulberg Factor. This phenomenon—a compound optical illusion—may not have been discovered by Budd Schulberg, the novelist and fight aficionado, but he receives credit here for pointing it out to a few of us who were asking ourselves how Hagler came to be so cruelly misjudged. Budd's reasoning was that people were so amazed to find Sugar Ray capable of much more than they imagined that they persuaded themselves he was doing far more than he actually was.

Similarly, having expected extreme destructiveness from Marvin, they saw anything less as failure and refused to give him credit for the quiet beating he administered.

What Ray Leonard pulled off in his split decision over Hagler was an epic illusion. He had said beforehand that the way to beat Hagler was to give him a distorted picture. But this shrewdest of fighters knew it was even more important to distort the picture for the judges. His plan was to "steal" rounds with a few flashy and carefully timed flurries and to make the rest of each three-minute session as unproductive as possible for Hagler by circling briskly away from the latter's persistent pursuit. When he made his sporadic attacking flourishes, he was happy to exaggerate hand speed at the expense of power, and neither he nor two of the scorers seemed bothered by the fact that many of the punches landed on the champion's gloves and arms. This was showboating raised to an art form, and the brilliance with which it was sustained was a tribute to Leonard's wonderful nerve, which is cut from the same flawless diamond as Ali's.

But, however much the slick ploys blurred the perceptions of those on the fevered sidelines, they never broke Hagler. He has a different kind of spirit, but it is no less resolute than Leonard's. The hounding intensity that kept him unbeaten through 11 years from 1976 will soon be a memory, but he had enough left to press on through his early frustrations, throw the superior volume of hurtful punches. I'm convinced Hagler won the fight; a draw, and the retention of the title, was the very least he deserved.

"It's unfair, man, it's unfair," Hagler said helplessly to the master illusionist at the end. That's an old cry and—given the haphazard way boxing judges its heroes—all too often a true one.
​

Only six out of the thirteen major papers ringsiders thought Leonard won the fight. Had the scores reflected the majority who called it either a draw or a win for Hagler, the title would not have changed hands.

The Associated Press, which has been closer to actual scores of fights than any other source over the past several decades, had the fight for Hagler 117-112. That's closer to the truth than even Filippo had it.

 

Boxing is a much worse place without Hugh McIvanney around to analyze the madness of boxing and clarify it for us mere mortals. He saw beyond the hype and excitement of the Hagler Leonard event to lay out for the rest of us what really happened that night.

 

As we know SRL was walking around at 145 in the early 80's so there's some hypothitical here.

Did SRL avoid Hagler in the early 80's because he didn't think he could beat him then - maybe?

IMO in the early 80's it would still have been a hell of a fight, like their later bout was.

It would've gone the distance IMO, and though most of the smart money here seems to be for Hagler, I can't split 'em. Commonsense does say Hagler, but let's not forget what Leonard was capable of and what he managed to acheived - one of the cleverest guys ever to pull gloves on.

 

"people were so amazed to find Sugar Ray capable of much more than they imagined that they persuaded themselves he was doing far more than he actually was.

Similarly, having expected extreme destructiveness from Marvin, they saw anything less as failure and refused to give him credit for the quiet beating he administered. "


For me, these two paragraphs are spot on. Best explanation ever on what happened in that fight.

Man, Hugh McIvanney was such a gifted writer.

 

:good:good:good

 

The same could be said of Durans fight with Hagler yet he never got the nod!!!

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, the fight was close after all, I thought Leonard won 7 rds with a decent argument that he should/could have gotten some Hagler rds too.
There was no robbery in this fight... that much I do know as fact.
Close fights are not robberies & Leonard won anyway... end of.

 

I agree. This controversy will never be settled. It has become a true clash of religions: at the end of the day it is an issue of faith, either you believe or you don't

Anyway, opinions and perceptions can change with time.

I remember a very young myself watching the TV with a mixture of dissapointment and anger while thinking: "HAGLER, YOU $%@#&!!!!! YOU LET HIM WIN, YOU LET THAT $%@#& GIRL GET AWAY WITH THE FIGHT!!!!!" :twisted:

However, now, with the insight and wisdom that only time and maturity can give, I can analyse that fight free of passion, bias and prejudice, with true neutral perspective and give my educated opinion: "HAGLER, YOU $%@#&!!!!! YOU LET HIM WIN, YOU LET THAT $%@#& GIRL GET AWAY WITH THE FIGHT!!!!!" :twisted:

 

PbP Bacon, the Muslims sure won't go near you!

 

Good punchline :yep

In any case, if I ever box with a Muslim, at least I know he won't be pulling a Tyson on my ears

 

Yep.

 

Nope.

 

yup

 

Yes, Duran get's a "free ride" because this was his "second" career, where Leonard only had "half" a career.

How many times did he defend any of his titles?.