Leonard v Hagler at 160 in the early-mid 80s - please vote and comment

Hagler was shot. They will even tell you this on the video. Tim Ryan to Clancy: "Sugar ray said marvin had lost a lot of speed and that he was counting on the slowness of hagler". In other words, he was waiting for a shot fighter-that was his gameplan.

I've always said this, otherwise there would never have been a Hagler-Leonard just as there was never a Nunn-Leonard

 

Well. I can´t give you the right answer, only Sugar Ray can, but I can give you my thought of it.
If I recall it right Sugar Ray said that the fight with Hagler was just one fight for him, so I think he wasn´t after the title, he was after Hagler and he won that. Then he goes after Lalonde who was Light heavyweight champion and he won that one to. I think Sugar Ray was after to take that title just so he would be the first fighter who won world titles in 5 different weightclasses. I don´t think Sugar Ray was after to win the title to just continue to defend it, I think he was after the different titles just to become the first one who had been a champion in five different weightclasses. I might be wrong but isn´t that a record that still stands?
I beleive That was Sugar Rays goal. But like I wrote only Sugar Ray can give you the answer.
Well Now I have given you my answer, now it´s your turn to give yours
All the best
The predator

 

While I don't hold with Redrooster in the matter of Leonard, I don't accord him a title at LHW. He forced Lalonde to drop weight so that both SMW and LHW would be on the line.

Kinda like if Hagler had forced Spinks to drop to SMW and then claimed the LHW title upon beaing him.

Ray never beat a LHW at the weight.

Ergo, he was never a legit LHW.

He was however, a genuine ATG and a legend, based on his work at 147, 154 and 160.




As for the thread question, I believe the fight in 1981 results in a Hagler victory, probably by stoppage.

 

And the Howard fight? Too many holes in his story! :nono

That combined with the proclamation after the Mugabi fight that "I can beat him I want to fight him". It's easy to guess the right answer :yep if someone was able to follow the development of this fight from the start. Most people here are too young and dont know ****. But I tracked it from early on.

Ray had been doing commentary for Hagler's fights on HBO since his first defense - January 1981.

After 5 years and 12 defenses he's saying he "wants to fight him"?

Let's face it, he's lying! And then he's still fighting at age 34 and even age 40 which wouldnt make sense if his eye was really in jeopardy. No man who was so reluctant to fight in the first place would keep putting his sight in jeopardy this way- the reason he gave which prevented him (or so he says) from taking the Hagler fight in the first place.

Instead of a 1983 Hagler-srl fight, I find Leonard on some ocean liner punching it out some amateur who obviously he had been seeking out. That was real fighting right there but he's claiming an exhibition gone bad.


The Hagler fight came way too late. Do the words "thanks for softening him up for me buddy" mean anything to you? becuz that's what Leonard was heard telling Roldan who was on the undercard. I heard him myself

and his choice to face lalonde was an extreme dissapointment. It's insulting to peddle this farce to people like me. When the public calls for Hagler-Leonard 1983, we get it in 1987 with Hagler holding 1/3 the undisputed title and when ray Leonard does become active we have to watch Lalonde too?

The fans deserve a Nunn match or Jackson or better yet, both in title defenses. I dont see why he cant give it to us. What better way to go out than to make some defenses against some of the most formidable opposition since a young Hagler. Young, dangerous, multidimensional crushers, killers and with enough exposure on the networks to make into a megamillions superbout.

It would have been the right move. :yep

Then afterwards, move back down and beat Terry Norris. That's all he has to do

 

That's right. Beat Terry Norris, the man on my avatar. All you got to do is go up into the ring and walk right thru him!

 

Like Julian Jackson did.
Well, redrooster, thanks for your answer, I understand why you don´t like SRL now, I don´t agree with you, SRL is one of my all time favourites, but we both are right to have our own opinions, no one is more right than the other. Terry Norris was good but not one of my favourites so it would be easy to find stuff to write him down as well, but I aint gonna do that. I respect any fighter who goes into that ring, Norris, Leonard, Hagler or any names, I might not like them all but I do respect them.
All the best
The Predator

 

Terry was a lot better than good :yep and got the results to prove it. But most people for some reason seem to underestimate him.

This was something Ray leonard found out ther hard way when he dared challenge him. And although his accomplishments, experience were enormous with his five championships, and unbeaten in 11 years, he was no match for the speed and telent of Norris.

In addition to being blessed with the power to put opponents in their place, was the hand and foot speed that always seemd to put victory out of the opponent's reach.

Terry Norris-he made it look easy.

 

You really like Terry Norris, right? Nothing wrong with that, he was good. He won over Sugar Ray, but remember it was an OLD Sugar Ray. It´s always sad that we can´t get the best boxers in their prime to fight each other, it would have been great fight´s to watch.
Both Sugar Ray and Terry Norris are great fighters, that´s for sure. However none of them come close to the greatest of all time- Muhammad Ali:yep
but you know I really like Muhammad Ali, my favourite boxer.
All the best
the Predator

 

Fu** yeah I like Norris! Who DONT like Norris! I could tlk about Norris all day. Terry doesnt just beat the opponent, he annihilates them, embarrasses them, humiliates them, dominates them.

I really enjoy that video Iceveins put up a while back where it shows Norris' fists lighting up with energy rings just before connecting. He added that in but I thought it was a nice touch

I bet his opponents felt like screaming in pain and terror under Terry's assault-YAAAAHHHHH!!!! I'm dying!

Like that time he drove Gatti thru the ropes after a good strong start. Terry responded with a lightning left hook putting the tough Gatti on the floor-WHAP!

And the Curry fight. Terry looked like he was nailing Curry's head into the canvas.

The thing I liked about Terry is that whenever an opponent came on strong, Terry raised his performance to the next level, putting the fight hopelessly out of reach. After giving their best, opponents realized they could no longer win.

Terry's only drawback was his tendency to foul opponents. But Leonard fouled hagler repeatedly so it's okay for Terry too.

Ray Leonard never faced anyone like Terry. back in his days everyone was slow. All they had back then were guys like Kalule, Hope, Bushy Bester, Wilfred Benitez. They were okay fighters but too slow. Then came Moore then Hearns who improved then McCallum then Jackson; one superstar after another. And finally, Terry Norris.

Even after Terry punched out the puncher Mugabi, there were doubters but I knew Terry was a true up and cumer. Leonard thought he could simply box Terry and eventually break him down to the body. But Terry was the new breed of fighter that Ray had never experienced. Terry started the saying that "you can't hit what you can't touch" and Ray Leonard found it impossible to touch him let alone hit with combinations

It was the speed!

Only a couple of times did Ray reach Terry. His best chance came late in the 11th when he caught Terry with 6 straight shots (I counted them) but Terry like the true champ he was took it without blinking. Every other time Ray got close enough Terry would smartly and professionally tie him up, styming his momentum and there was nothing he coud do. That's ring intelligence right there!

I have even momorized certain parts of this fight because when seeing it I would wonder "how did he do that?". For instance, in round 6 ray tries for a big right and Terry instantly ducks under Ray's haymaker. The instant Ray tried to break away, Terry slams one to the ribs and Ray had no defense for it. Ray just never seen anything like it.

Then my favorite part when Terry has Ray hypnotized with his footspeed. he hypnotized him into following him around the ring to the ropes where he wanted him when Terry came off the ropes with a thudding left that had Ray's head recoiling from the impact. But Ray doesnt discourage easily. Even though hopelessly outclassed he still displayed the championships heart that made him a legend. Once more he attempted to measure Terry for his right but Ray Leoanrd move in slow motion next to Terry and Terry snake bits Ray on the hin. Down he go!

The rest of the fight too gruesome to talk about.

Terry norris, he made it look easy.

 

Why was Leonard such a massive underdog for the Hagler fight? The betting certainly never said that Hagler was shot. Leonard was dropped by a journeyman 3 years earlier and had never fought at the weight prior to fighting Hagler.

Give the man some credit.

 

Well from the various polls I read at the time it seemed that almost as many people had leonard favored over Hagler. Hagler was great at one time but his time was certainly over. I watched marvin in the sessions with the Weaver triplets and could see that. As for the betting who knows how that works? The same bettors had Ray a massive favorite over Norris and look what happened.

By the way, where you been?

 

Simply put, Hagler in his prime is the best MW of all time. Even if you put him up against Harry Greb or Sugar Ray Robinson, I would favor Hagler. Of course, all three match-ups would be great and close.

 

Hiding from you.

 

Hopkins would have beaten Hagler. It's such a close fight on paper, but it's one I'm confident of if it had happened.

 

I liked Ali too but more becuz his charisma than his fighting. There had never been anyone like Ali in the sport and may nver be again. Ali made boxing popular to the average guy on the street. He was so right when he said just before his retirment in 67 that he wasnt going to miss boxing, but that boxing was going to miss him. What was boxing without ALI?

Jack Johnson opened the door for Joe louis just like Ali opened the doors for people like Leonard who would otherwise never stand to make those millions. Who would ray have to remind the people of?