Leonard v Hagler at 160 in the early-mid 80s - please vote and comment

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Jun 2, 2009.


  1. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    it sucked like all of srls other fights. a 1983 blowout wouldve been better for the public.

    top 10 p4p :lol:

    try # 49 . I managed to find a spot for him out of the goodness of my heart :good
     
  2. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Don't forget, a prime Hagler went the distance with a natural lightweight in 1983. :good
     
  3. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    Nah, cant see even a prime Leonard stopping prime Hagler, Id say 8-6-1 UD.

    Now your OVERrating Leonard, rooster :rofl
     
  4. PopeJackson

    PopeJackson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Damn this guy is biased.
     
  5. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    This ****in guy :rofl :lol:

    Im not saying Leonard dominated those rds but you`d have to be a complete biased moron (no offence) to give any of those 4 rds to Hagler.
    Every rd has a clear enough winner except 6,9,10 & 12... I gave MMH 9 & 10, SRL the other two.

    There is a thread on the British forum & just about every person gives SRL 5 of the 1st 6 rds with Hagler winning rd 5.... surely the overwhelming majority has a better chance of being right than you, especially a non-Leonard fan (to keep it mild)
     
  6. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    i didnt say dominate, i said sweep you dummy! dont you know the difference? Damn!!

    They use the term in basketball championship games. i used it as an analogy for rounds 1-4 which you keep referring to

    you want to refer to specifics? I will. Dynamita herself (himself?) even say the rounds are too close but I see the way you just give her (him) the brushoff with your EXCUSES/ Bull****

    I got to go the classic forum posters photo section just to get a look at you
     
  7. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    All Ive done is score the fight for Leonard 115-113, most people do, I think even you did at one point, saying its Leonards best ever performance or some **** (you know what Im talking about)

    I also picked Leonard in a primes match, most people dont, not a problem, they could well be right but your more biased AGAINST Leonard than I am FOR ANY fighter, not just Leonard.

    I might have SRL in my top 10 p4p & most might not agree with that but seriously... what sort of guy has him at 49 :-( thats beyond mental & a prime example why your opinion matters less than every other poster when Leonard is concerned.

    Its all good fun tho, keep it up.


    Botswana :smoke
     
  8. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    I know you said SWEEP, I was just letting you know that IM not saying Leonard dominated the rds, Im merely saying that its NOT HARD to pick a winner in those rds, simple.

    Also... at least spell the guys name right, its DINAMITA... I never gave any bs/excuses, I agreed with some points but just let him know where I seen it different in some parts.

    Take care now :thumbsup
     
  9. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I said the Hagler fight is his best performance.

    as for the bias that people claim I dont really care what people think. I'm a debater-that's what I do. so naturally when you got posters on a boxing forum you will get into discussions and debates if need be. sometimes I agree and sometimes I dont.

    But it seem alot of times people here to afraid too get into it. If the detail too mcu for them they get uncomfortable and back out by shutting up. That is my complaint about the posters here-that they just believe what they want to believe

    people here know I seen Hagler sparring the month before the leonard fight. They know all that. just the fact that they all keep quiet when it comes to that discussion tells me they are too afraid to call me out on it. John Thomas called me out one night becuz he didnt think I could but I put up the photo he asked for. that photo shows Marvin right infront of the Hotel name I mentioned years before when I was describing it.

    I took care of that clown, at least for one night.
     
  10. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    This content is protected
     
  11. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    ^ Oh is that John at work?
     
  12. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    Who did you score the Leonard-Hagler fight for (& which rds if you can remember) ?

    Just to see how different our cards are.
     
  13. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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  14. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    I do indeed consider resume to be the most important single factor when evaluating greatness, and we have already established that I think Leonard is one of a very select few at the absolute pinnacle of the sport in terms of ability.

    However, it is resume which precludes me from having SRL in my top 10. I think when I did my last list last year, Ray was 14th or something like that. His best wins are AMAZING! Some of the best wins in history. However, if you are evaluating his career:

    - Won 36 fights in a 40-fight career
    - Won 12 world titles fights and lost 2
    - His peak lasted three years, '79-'82
    - OK, there is Duran II, Hearns I, Benitez and Hagler. 4 incredible wins. What else is there?? Decent wins over Kalule and Lalonde, a draw with Hearns that he did not deserve, and nothing else of note really


    Ray is IMO probably top 5, maybe even top 3, ever in terms of ability. However, is 12 world title wins, a 3 year peak period, and a resume which has a few stunning wins but not much else - is that sufficient achievement to be considered top 10 of all-time, alongside guys like Langford and Robinson, and even Ali and Duran, who went to the well again and again and again for years and years and years, spanning several eras?

    Ray just doesn't make it IMO. But that doesn't mean he wasn't as good as anyone else to ever lace them up. Just wish he had had more time at the top so he could proved it over time and nailed himself into that top 3-5 bracket.


    PS: For instance, Leonard had Duran II, Hearns, Benitez and Hagler (4 landmark wins).

    Ali had Liston I and II, Frazier II and III, Foreman (5 landmark wins).

    But then, Ali also had these wins across two decades:

    Moore, Cooper I and II, Patterson I and II, Chuvalo I and II, Quarry I and II, Foster, Bugner, Norton II and III, Lyle, Young, Shavers.... and more.

    See my point kinda? SRL can't be ranked in the same bracket as Ali for this reason IMO.
     
  15. MrMarvel

    MrMarvel Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Duran-Leonard II is not an incredible win. Duran quit in the ring in a fight that was pretty much even up that point (which was remarkable given that Duran spent the night in the hospital from a stomach he developed before entering the ring).

    Leonard-Hearns I was not an incredible win. Hearns was winning the fight going away, outpunching and outboxing Leonard. He gassed in a fight with an overeager referee.

    Benitez was an interesting fight. Benitez hardly trained for it, so we didn't get anywhere near his best effort. The stoppage was total bull****. Leonard was winning by a fair margin. Unremarkable contest.

    Hagler beat Leonard, so there is nothing incredible about that win. The judging? That was incredible.

    Duran beat the crap out of Leonard the first time they met. Duran was incredible. Leonard hanging on for dear life. (I can't believe people actually think that was a close fight.)

    Hearns floored Leonard twice and outpointed him in the rematch. Nothing incredible about that.

    And Leonard was decked twice and carried by Terry Norris.

    And here we are seriously debate whether he should be given a spot among the best fighters of all time? Describing Leonard as "amazing" and so forth?