Leonard vs. Duran--Stomach Cramps?

Honestly, you have to ask these people- would Carmen Basilio have walked off like that? Or Ali? etc etc.

 

Al "Blue" Lewis TKO 10 Muhammad Ali. (Ali: "I had to take a ****!")

SRL hit Duran with a bolo windmill in Montreal, and it didn't matter.

To me, Duran's most embarrassing performance on live television was against Kirkland Laing.

Fact is, Duran ate like a pig after the weigh-in for New Orleans (a useful advisory to anybody who's never tried Cajun cuisine), and suddenly got seized by a momentary case of the shits. Duran's major mistake in New Orleans was wearing the white trunks instead of the black trunks SRL had on. If he had on the black trunks, he could have taken a mid ring dump without severely discoloring his pants. (Roberto's other mistake was not wearing Depends diapers underneath his attire.)

Duran should have just let go of his holdings. SRL would have run screaming from the ring, or slipped on Duran's poo, and been counted out. (At least then, Duran wouldn't have embarrassed himself....much.)

 

--of course it is, because you couldn't possibly bring yourself to see things honestly or rationally. Your argument is based on naive acceptance of unreliable sources and idiotic assumptions that those who reject the medical excuse are 'Leonard lovers'.

Well, Duran is my favorite fighter ever and I'm telling you that your argument is naive.

Duran made a regrettable, impulsive decision that night and deserves to be forgiven due to his many, many subsequent redemptions. Making excuses and bashing Leonard fans is not the way to go.

 

Well, ok, let's say Duran would have lost lots of supporters. It doesn't mean he lied to prevent that from happening. If he was lying then you have a reason for him lying, but that's after you've accused him of lying.
The starting premise "It's a lie" is what I object to.

Well, I'm coming from the angle that he had stomach cramps. I'm not looking for ways to make it look like he did not have stomach cramps. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Witnesses say he ate a ton of food an hour before the fight, so where should I see a "coincidence".
Duran was an idiot if it's true.
But I'm not gonna say, "Funny how he got stomach cramps when getting "embarrassed" by Leonard, only time on national TV" ....

I'm more inclined to say, "What does he expect ?! Eating all that food" .... I'm not surprised he had a problem with his insides, in fact I'd say he's lucky it never happened before if he's done similar things before.

Yeah, he clowned a bit and scored with some pot-shots, that's what I said.
This is boxing, it doesn't always go your way.
If people want to read a bit of showboating and a few sucker pot-shots in the space of about four minutes as "humiliating" or "embarrassing" displays then fair enough.
Personally I'd use those descriptions for stuff like Calzaghe-Lacy.

Yeah, I've boxed a little bit. But I'm not Roberto Duran. I'd say "**** it, I've had enough" in lots of situations that Duran's been in. I'm not a great fighter. It's absurd to make a comparison.
It seems odd to try to empathize by speculating on his mentality, when it's a lot easier for us to imagine what it would feel like trying to fight experiencing stomach cramps, a congested bowel, an feeling that you might **** your pants if you move too much, a twisting stomach.
Most human beings can relate to those physical ailments quite accurately, but assume another human beings mental state is very hit-and-miss.

And I think Duran now makes the excuse that he was out-of-shape too.
At the time his cornermen, trainers and managers said he was in great shape as far as training camp went, so perhaps they didn't have a clue. I dont know.

"Maybe it was the illness" - exactly my point. Maybe it was the illness, and why not give Duran the benefit of the doubt ?

The first five rounds were fairly even.
And as you describe, Duran was throwing the punches at the end when he decided to quit. Leonard was throwing few.
If he was getting beaten up spectacularly I'd understand your point. But fact is, it was an odd action quitting, very unexpected, HENCE THE CONTROVERSY.

No.
I heard them completely unable to fathom WHY Duran had quit though. They weren't exactly saying :
"That humiliating beating was obviously too much to take, I'm surprsised he endured the embarrassment as long as he did!"

And they all said he was in great shape too.

You're making a complete different argument now.
You are saying he might have quit because of stomach cramps but he shouldn't have.
I'm not arguing that he was 100% right to quit from stomach cramps, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he actually had stomach cramps and that was why he decided to quit.

I actually think it's irrelevant whether or not he was justified in quitting, since his illness seems to be self-inflicted. No excuses for his defeat.

So, if it was true he should have lied ?
Yeah, maybe.
Seems like yet another angle to attack him on though.

I dont disagree.

 

Jeff Fenech used to eat like an absolute pig right after his weigh ins too, and i mean eat.

 

Because of the circumstancial evidence against that: in no hurry at all to leave the ring after he quit, partying after that and only going to the hospital at 3 in the morning where he stayed for a grand total of one night (what a condition that must have been), the fact that he himself said "i thought he'd give me an immediate rematch, i gave him one, so i said to hell with it", the fact that he didn't look ill before, during or after the match.


No one knows for sure about those "stomach cramps" but himself, you give him the benefit of the doubt, i don't.


I just find it amusing that people like Hank here say "Wellll Duran had such an extraordinairy case of ..... STOMACH CRAMPS!" and acting asif it's such a big ****ing deal to quit over or anything.

 

Duran's corner shoulda brought along a Porta-Potty and shower curtain.

 

No Leonard just exposed Duran

 

Possibly. Leonard was still made an instant favourite for the rematch- and he quit two times fewer than Duran.

 

That's the funny thing about saddo's like Hank. Duran had 'the worst stomach cramps in history ever ever ever". And didn't you just know that Hank himself would have had stomach cramps that bad.

 

I know a close friend of Trainer, smart guy but he took Angelo's lead in this senario

 

Hugh McIlvanney on No Mas:

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

 

That is partly right. Duran was not "exposed" by Leonard. Nor was he a "bully" or a "coward". The other side of the aisle is just as off... Duran wasn't having a near-death experience with stomach cramps.

The man was always a savage; he satisfied all of the requirement of the label: he was wild, a glutton, sexually promiscuous, prone to extreme behavior, from aggressive outbursts to giving away his purse in toto to the poor in Guerare. What is a savage if he is not impulsive? Duran had no fear as most men do, but on the night he quit against Leonard, he said "to hell with this clown, I can't catch him, I'll get him in 7 months when I train better."

It wasn't stomach cramps that prompted the surrender... it was a mental burb.

It was the fact that he was not in anywhere near the condition he should have been. It his natural impulsivity and an unwilllingness to allow the hated Leonard to have a 'real' win.

Deal with it.
Duran has.

In 1989 he was asked for the millionth time about the New Orleans fiasco by a reporter whose daddy was an ostrich. Duran answered:

"I am a living legend."

Right there is everyone's answer to the question of 'No Mas'.

 

Well, this quote really sums it up. There were no more stomach cramps there (because I've had stomach cramps) than there was a pain in Liston's shoulder.

I don't think at all that Duran threw the fight. I think he wanted to avoid more rounds of being humiliated. I also think he was just plain surprised by the adjustment Leonard had made. Duran was not afraid, didn't have stomach cramps and didn't throw the fight. He so severely miscalculated what he would encounter that he would rather lose face in a general way than to have the world continue to watch him be cut up.