Lesnar proves that WWE/Pro Wrestlers own MMA

In terms of being the biggest star or in a real fight? If the latter, obviously, if the former, maybe.

 

Keep dreamin Jack, maybe one day Brock will let you oil his jock strap

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Alright, a few points in regards to this thread. Some ignorant posts from both sides.

Someone mentioned that boxers get destroyed in MMA. This is obviously completely inaccurate. Jeremy Williams is 5-0 in MMA and has defeated fighters with alot of experience. Not only that but some of his wins came via submission including a rare gogoplata that he secured but had to relinquish because he fell out of the ring.

Marcus Davis, Chris Lytle are both former pro boxers both of whom were MEDIOCRE at best. They both were state fighters and they BOTH got KO's by mediocre journeymen boxers who accomplished nothing in the sport of boxing. Lytle and Davis are regarded as being top 10-15 WW in MMA and have fought some of the best fighters in the WW division in the sport. Lytle even went the distance with Hughes, Serra, Koscheck who are all very tough style matchups for a striker like Lytle and yet they all couldnt finish him.

Alessio Sakara was a mediocre boxer as well fighting for meaningless straps and even got KO'd at an attempt to capture a IBF junior belt. Sakara holds wins over some good fighters and is fighting for the best organization in MMA. If it werent for his weak chin he'd probably hold wins over the likes of Leben and McFedries.

So boxing clearly plays a very important role in MMA and is the reason why many fighters employ boxing as their primary striking art.

In regards to Lesnar. I dont know how anybody could not think this is embarassing to MMA especially the UFC. Sure he has a great COLLEGIATE wrestling background but the guy was dicking around in the WWE for 6 years, got cut by a football team in 05 and started training MMA in late 06. Hes been in MMA for less than 2 years and he could arguably be undefeated as he was beating on Mir until the ref stood them back up without issuing a warning. And his last win was against a fighter in Heath Herring who has fought some of the best HW's in MMA. He even almost defeated the current UFC champion Minotauro Noguiera. Heath Herring is no joke and Lesnar manhandled him like a little girl. Herring is obviously a perfect matchup for Lesnar and is just another example of UFC's creative matchmaking to ensure their posterboy gets the WIN. Remember the O'brien/Herring fight. O'Brien essentially outwrestled him for 3 rounds earning a UD in a very boring fight. Herring cant hang with wrestlers and the UFC knew that.

And now Lesnar is getting a title shot with a 2-1 record in MMA and 1-1 record in the UFC. Not only is he getting a title shot but the guy may actually defeat Couture who is arguably the greatest fighter in UFC history. A fighter who has held a title in 2 weight classes. In fact I wouldnt be in the least bit surprised to see Lesnar outwrestle and overpower the smaller Couture to a decision.

Boxing has some old stars but they also have some younger stars that have bright futures. In fact, Cotto, Margarito, Pacquaio, Taylor, Pavlik get more PPV buys than fighters like Hopkins, Wright etc. Boxing is just fine. It may not be as popular than the UFC in North America but it is worldwide. And with Pavlik, Cotto, Hatton, Margarito, Gamboa, Pacman, Lopez all in their 20's boxing has nothing to worry about in regards to its future. Boxing will not go the freakshow route like the UFC.

The myth that MMA fighters have to be WELL-ROUNDED is just that...a myth. Lesnar is a one-dimensional fighter who couldnt even finish off Herring despite having his back almost the ENTIRE fight. And yet he dominated with his athleticism, size and wrestling. Just like Koscheck, Hughes, Lindland, Sherk, Edgar and many other fighters. There are alot of one-dimensional fighters who have succeeded in MMA. It all depends on what you're good at. Ground fighters succeed moreso than strikers because of the ruleset in MMA. It is absolutely geared towards ground fighting especially in MMAs current landscape with the octagon being prevalent in so many MMA promotions. Strikers in PRIDE had alot more success in the ring as opposed to the octagon. Just no further than fighters like Crocop, Hunt who went directly to MMA without any experience in any other combat sports and beat some very notable fighters. In fact, Hunt had a kimura on the best HW in MMA in Fedor Emelianenko and Crocop gave both Nog and Fedor 2 very difficult contested fights.

 

Theres nothing embarassing about Lesnar, he is just a continuation of a group of fighters that have been around since UFC 4 in Dan Severn, big strong wrestlers who figure out grappling as they go. Coleman then improved the gameplan by adding systematic ground and pound to end fights. From there the gameplan for american wrestlers moved into 3 directions; the Matt Hughes style of takedown into sub grappling, the Couture style of clinchwork into systematic GnP, and the Liddell style of sprawl and brawl. Obviously those are broad definitions, but most fight 1 more than the other even though they are all mixed.

Theres a long history of guys very similar to Lesnar, in terms of real wrestling, having great success in the sport.

Coleman was a UFC and Pride champ, Randleman was a UFC champ, Kerr was a UFC champ and Pride contender, Tom Erikson was a top contender who just couldn't get fights, Dan Severn was a UFC champ, and then guys who also became a little more well rounded (which I think Lesnar is) Couture, Lindland, Henderson, Trigg, Hughes, Matyushenko, and countless others.

I agree about well rounded being overrated, so long as you have the requisite ability to get the fight you want, you don't necessarily need to be well rounded. Paulo Filho is not particuarly well rounded, but he has good takedowns so he doesn't need to be, Shinya Aoki is not well rounded at all and doesn't need to be because he can implement grappling from any position.

If the pro wrestling thing, which is undeniably stupid, bugs you that much think about Sakuraba, Josh Barnett, Randleman, Coleman, CroCop, and half the Japanese MMA scene.

 

Well Sakara and Davis are good examples, but Lytle is a damn good wrestler and a BJJ blackbelt, the boxing came later because he realized he is quite good at it.

This, however, is absolute horse****. Herring has wins over 2 fighters that are arguably more experienced, more accomplished in both wrestling and mma, and more well rounded than Lesnar in Tom Erikson and Mark Kerr.

He beat two similar fighters to Lesnar already, it was a dangerous match for Lesnar and proved alot.

 

Absolutely correct. Good post.

In MMA, its all about dictating your type of fight. Actually you can say that about all combat sports. In boxing you box a brawler, brawl a boxer etc. MMA is similar, if you're a fanastic wrestler and is able to take your man to the ground, control him and avoid submissions you will go very far in MMA. Just like fighters like Liddell who can avoid a takedown and fight his FIGHT. Another example is Anthony Johnson whos an athletic fighter and basically defended every single takedown attempt from Speer. In the process he continued to land punch after punch on Speer ultimately ending the fight. Johnson if he stays on his feet has the athleticism to frustrate alot of fighters in MMA. However, on the rare occasion he ends up on the ground he looks like a fish out of water. Just look at the Burns fight. Sure his takedowns were fantastic and explosive but while on the ground he literally could not advance position and was actually forced to stand up frequently by the referee due to inactivity.

Aoki is probably the most one-dimensional fighter ive seen in MMA. His BJJ is fantastic and he almost always dictates the fight he wants. Filho is another great example. Jake Shields in my opinion isnt particularly well-rounded. Kenny Florian isnt even well-rounded. In my opinion, his Muay Thai is rather ordinary but the guy is a very intelligent fighter with incredible BJJ.

 

Lytle was a high school wrestler. And im almost 100% positive he doesnt have a black belt in BJJ. If he does, than ill be glad for you to prove me wrong with a link to the source.

Lytles brief stint in boxing wasnt because he thought he was good at it but most likely because it was a way for him to earn some extra cash. Because, his boxing career consisted of fighting within the state of Indiana against journeymen with losing records. When he did step up the competition he lost a UD to Shay Mobley who was a 17-9 fighter who lost the majority of his fights to mediocre boxers with poor records.

Mark Kerr and Tom Erikson? Herring beat Kerr when in 2001 during a time Kerr was already on a 2 fight losing streak and than managed to lose his next 3 fights following the Herring fight. Kerr was also admittedly enduring one of the roughest periods of his life as he was addicted to painkillers. And name one notable win on Kerrs resume?

The point is when he fought a young athletic wrestler in O'Brien he got manhandled. He literally had no solution for his takedowns and O'Brien was just controlling him on the ground with ease. If you dont think Herring was brought into lose to Lesnar than im at a loss for words. Herring was handpicked for Lesnar. Lesnar is stronger, more athletic with the style to absolutely frustrate Herring. After the O'brien fight Herring looked like he wanted to never face a wrestler again. You dont think White wasnt at the O'Brien fight? White brought Lesnar into win. Thats why hes putting him in there with Couture in what will be the biggest UFC fight in history.

 

They talked about his Black belt during his fight with Koscheck, I'm pretty sure its fairly new. I know he has trained with Marcello Monterio and Miguel Torres for a long time; Monterio is the star student of De La Riva (De La Riva Guard) and has close ties to the Nog brothers.

My other point is that Lesnar has the ability to beat big wrestlers, he was ment to lose, yes, but he was also ment to test to see if Lesnar could perform. A guy like Kongo or Sanchez would have been much more of a sure thing but wouldn't have proved what Herring allowed him to prove.

 

Couture/Lesnar is blasphemy, an embarrassment to all of MMA and a drain to any credibility that UFC had. That's all I gota say.

 

First off, excellent post.

But the debate on who would win between an MMA fighter and a Boxer is pretty simple for me. A guy who trains MMA (BJJ, Wrestling, Muay Thai, Boxing, etc), against a guy that trains only Boxing. Lets say they've both been training for only a year. Who would you favor in a street fight?

 

well don't bother this is going to be a great fight and could be the biggest of all time in MMA. Brock lesnar is going to be a tough opponent for everybody.

 

Yes and no. It certainly has great entertainment value but Lesnar`s credibility is zero in the world of MMA right now. He doesnt deserve a title shot but Dana is a shrewd business man and willing to gamble on his name. Much as EliteXC gambling on Kimbo`s notoriety.

 

Once this fight came up, MMA dropped to a level of Pro Wrestling in many respects. This is pretty much a deadbolt in the fact that UFC is a monopoly when theres at least 5 names who deserve a shot more than Lesnar. Basically you don't really have to earn a shot at a title. All you have to do is pretty much put a sparkle on Dana's balls.

 

Who ever connected with the better shot first.

Unfortunetly skill and expertise can be a minimal factor in a street fight.

Not much people go for armbars etc in a street biff.