Lets compare Pretty Boy to Pacman in an ATG sense

Another insightful post.

 

I only add genuine points in response to people who actually know what they're on about :good

 

Another **** poor excuse for having no answer. :good

 

Fair enough. Just can't be arsed. I think I've made it clear with other posts exactly what I appreciate (level of opposition) this thread is basically dominated by general forum posters from what I can see. Don't like it, add me to your block list :good obviously I contribute nothing to this board anyway.

 

No Im not saying that. If you look at the post before the other one, I posed some questions. I think your a good poster, but obviously you took things a little personal. No need to get upset. Whats the purpose of having a difference of opinion if we cant constructively discuss it? If someone is so blatantly wrong, it should be easy to prove otherwise dont you think?

 

I personally feel that Floyd dominance over Marquez WAS due to a size issue. Marquez wasn't as good at 145/7 and Pac wasn't as strong at 130 as he is now. Besides, I feel that Floyd would have a close fight if he actually fought someone who could challenge him. I don't believe the likes of Gatti, Hatton, Corrales, Baldomir, are as good scalps as say, Barrera, Cotto, Morales, Marquez, even taking into account the fact that when Pac DID beat Morales he wasn't at his best, and the two close fights with Marquez (Personally I had Marquez winning the 2nd fight 115-112, have misplaced my first scorecard, will do again, had Pac winning the first by 1 point I THINK not certain)

I don't place much on an undefeated record, nor do I detract from a fighter who has losses (especially when you consider what Pac has done post-Morales 1) HOWEVER if Floyd beats Pac it poses a difficult question;

Where to rank Floyd? Undoubtedly Pac has a better resume at the moment, however if Floyd were to beat him it would prove he is the better fighter IMO, mainly due to Pac being at the peak of his powers now (IMO) unbelievably at his highest weight.

Do you take into account Floyd's mediocre (for his talent) opposition thus far, or Pacs very good resume throughout his career despite the loss to Floyd?????

Put it this way, I'd be far more inclined to rate Floyd's abilities if he'd proven them against top-level opposition. Mosley and Pac are waiting for him. If he beats them both I'd be convinced that his radar-like defence and brilliant ring generalship wasn't just down to him fighting opponents that really weren't fantastic to start off with.

 

Well I think those are all fair points, but I also believe many people forget Floyd fought some tough customers himself, fighters that proved to be pretty good. The Corrales fight was one of the bigger ones somewhat like Pacs Cotto fight. Corrales had burst on the scene by his destruction of Roberto Garcia, was beating some solid guys and was in the prime of his career. The excuse of weight was an easy one, especially after Floyd completely took him apart but Corrales was an active 130 pound fighter and he didnt show too much physical weakness in the fight, other than getting his butt kicked. Castillo was somewhat unknown, but he was an excellent fighter (also in his prime), at the time Floyd fought him, and maybe Floyd didnt take him as seriously the first fight, but the second fight was fairly one sided. Maybe Judah and Mitchell were past their best, but so were Morales and Barrera, one of which beat Manny past his respective best (not to compare the four).
I dont only look at an undefeated record, but I also dont think fighter for fighter, there is much difference of level of opposition taking into consideration the timing of the fights.
I also think Mayweather had a big size advantage over JMM, but now seeing how Pac handled Cotto Im not so sure he didnt have a big advantage over JMM as well, so I know take into consideration some of his losses, or perceived losses (draws), against some of the more technical fighters.
Like I said, I think if he beats Mayweather, hes obviously going to rank higher, but at this point, Floyd is still ahead in my book.
This is often a common problem for a fighter that completely dominants opponents. His competition gets downgraded quickly in the eyes of the fans. Some of the fighters he fought would have certainly been more justified had he struggled a bit more. Look what the Castillo fight did for Castillo.

 

As far as I know, Corrales wanted to move to 135. Anyways, he was in the midst of a court hearing and knew he was going to jail. I'm not nit-picking, but was his head as 'in the game' as it could've been.

Not trying to discredit Floyd or anything, but when we're doing as we're doing now, incessantly picking apart resumes in order to determine who truly is better, I don't think it's a moot point.

 

I usually look to a fighters form pre and post a fight I'm discussing. Castillo was good, no doubt. But as good a win as Cotto? No. Baldomir had com off a decent win over Judah, but is that the kinda' win an 'ATG' is made of?

No. However, the destruction of Barrera is. The win over Cotto is somewhat tained by Cotto's slipping in recent years and his indestructible nature being taken away by Margarito, but it's an impressive win nonetheless.

Again, the Hatton win loses some of it's mystique by A)Floyd getting there first B) Hattons dwindling punch resistance as proven by the Lazcano fight, but Pac's performance was far superior to Floyds IMO.

 

Yes but this was the fight he wanted. They were amatuer nemesis, and hated each other. Corrales wanted to beat Floyd more than anything, and was the one constantly calling for the fight, correct?

 

I said the Corrales win was like the Cotto win. Corrales struggled with weight, but like you said the same can be said for Cotto slipping in recent years and having a weight restriction.

 

Except for the fact that Cotto was clearly the better fighter. His resume was solid, even with the loss to Marg and the close fight with Clottey (who would make most look bad to be fair) did Corrales have anything resembling a points win over Shane Mosley? No. Unfair. Kinda'. Floyd is unlucky not to have come across any solid fighters really, only decent ones. He has a chance to rectify that now, even if he doesn't fight Pac there's the winner of Mosley-Berto (I'm sure he'd jump at the chance to fight Berto should he somehow pull off the upset, but I feel Shane will stop Berto anyway)

 

Seems most are pointing to the Barrera win, but Barrera was a 60 fight veteran been through some serious wars.

 

So was Arguello when Pryor beat him, doesn't make it a bad win does it? Hearns over Duran?

 

I didnt say it was a bad win, just think there is a difference in beating a guy in his prime or at his best, as will be case if Pac and Mayweather fight each other.