Let's face it - Duran was the most complete, ever

It's arguable ... against Palomino and Leonard in Montreal, you can see JUST how quick Duran is and this is him above his best weight. In Montreal, you can see just how quick Duran's footwork was and just how quick that right hand could be thrown. He shocked Leonard with the speed of delivery off of the feint. Leonard got feinted into knots and then Duran lowered the hammer and from then, Duran was the ring general in a close and classic, but clear fight to judge. I'm always impressed by Duran slipping Leonard's flurries at close range as an indication of how quick his body movement was, upper body, bending at the waist and head movement.

 

I'd say that as a complete fighter - I'm talking a marriage of all fighting aspects considered, only SRR and Mantequilla impress me as much as the Duran of Palomino and Montreal. Of course, arguably, the Duran of the DeJesus rubbermatch is arguably his most 'rounded' performance, but I prefer the Duran of Montreal.

I'll say something somewhat controversial ... I believe that for a perfect marriage of skill and technique, that Duran may be the very best. In peak condition, with mean intentions, he's paramount to trying to climb a mountain during an avalanche without any climbing gear. However, I will say that I find Ray Robinson to be as close to the perfect fighter ... not better overall skills, especially on defence, than Duran, but much more 'effortless' - of course, Duran looked a natural, too. It's just that Ray had that aura, the seamless offence, the grace and wicked power combination - a certain flair on film that I don't think any fighter has replicated since. :huh

 

Lightweight champs like Joe Brown and Ike Williams were considered better than Duran, not anymore though. I think either would beat him at 135. Benny Leonard was considered greatest, but his era is too tough to judge against Duran's in that division.

 

Have you ever actually watched Joe Brown fight? Not saying he was a lackluster fighter or anything, but you're talking **** if you think he'd beat Duran.

 

Why? When Duran was in prime a lot of boxing people thought Brown was better. I see it as tough bout for both. If i had not seen him fight, I would not say so, I have seen him same way you have, on video and television. If CBS broadcasting had not signed Duran and shown all his fights on television, free, he would not have gotten as much fame. He had big publicity machine behind him. He was great, I am not disputing that, I'm saying others who are unknown or little known deserve more consideration

 

And? I think it's clear from watching them fight that not only was Duran simply a higher level of operator, but also a stylistic nightmare for Brown.

 

Duran is the most complete fighter I've ever seen on film. And I've watched a few fights.

 

Duran was not most complete, in years before he won many fighters had everything, they had to. If a guy could not fight on inside, or had any weakness, it would be exploited. More fights were needed to get a main event bout, and to get shot at title fighters would have 60-70 fights.

I spoke of Duran very well in past, I said on here once that he had best reflexes of any fighter I ever saw live. I won't go overboard on him though. He is one of greatest lightweights, maybe not greatest, and there were many complete fighters before him, and after too.

 

Excellent example.

'Cept SRL is greater than Spinks and his 135 reign was greater than Marvin's at 160. So even in this hypothetical that boosts Hagler emphatically, Duran's still greater. And he actually did it. :deal

I have Duran @ No. 6 out of respect for some ATG's who's resumes I feel deserve the top five. Anybody else... :nono Duran's a better fighter than you.

 

A very poor fighter, frankly. Predictable and simplistic. A little head movement, a little change in stance, a feint, a right cross, a left hook, a jab, an uppercut, a feint, an overhand right, a feint, a little defense, a little offense. Very formulaic. Any upper-level fighter can predict these textbook moves and exploit the pattern, timing it and making him pay, like Leonard and Hearns and Benitez all did.

 

Benny Leonard competion gets overrated big time

 

I'm not convinced Duran did something analogous to that. (i think hagler's own accomplishments stand up extremely well as they are)

i think people sometimes over-state duran's move from lightweight to welterweight. He was 26 years old when he last made 135 pounds he was naturally bigger than he was 4 or 5 years earlier. he naturally outgrew the division. i believe he was far more of a welter than a lightweight by the time he hit 27 years of age. just by natural growth
so thats why i thinks its wrong to give him credit for being a lightweight fighting all those guys
he wasnt dwarfed by ray leonard. Nor even by Hagler
yes barkley was big

Hagler was 31 or 33 years old in 1985 and was never a huge middleweight. spinks was 175 pounds and about 6'2 or 6'3. ray mercer in fighting shape was about 65 pounds heavier than a middleweight

 

Agreed. When I saw this thread I thought to myself "I wonder how long this thread lasts before someone dares to mention "no mas".

As it happens, we got to the bottom of page 2 before Pachilles "dsared" to mention it (respect to you Pachilles for sticking your head above the parapit!). I have not read the rest of this thread yet.

Manassa listed a number of categories, but surely mental strength and bravery should be included when assessing any great fighter (indeed, any great sportsman/woman).

The fact is, Duran QUIT in one of the biggest fights of his life, something that is anathema to the very spirit of a warrior sport such as boxing, yet seems to get a complete pass for this from some fans. How can this be? I cannot see how "no mas" can be disregarded when assessing Duran as a fighter.

I can only come to the conclusion that including "no mas" in any assessment of Duran would not suit the agenda of Duran fans trying to promote Duran's place in the pantheon of boxing greats.

 

Roberto duran v ray leonard 2 was probably the worst big fight ever. if you could call it that. i have some sympathy for leonard but not an awful lot. as for Duran, he was a disgrace.
the whole thing was a farce

incidentally i think their first fight is a little overrated. it was a good one but gets a bit too many accolades i think.
hows that for blasphemy?