Let's Hear It For Sugar Ray Leonard.

I loathed that arrogant ***** Leonard with a passion...

But Leonard/HearnsII was no robbery!

The 10 point must system means at most you can score the fight 113/112 Hearns, thus a draw is hardly a robbery,

What must be remebered about 10 point must is that a fighter has to totally dominate to win a round 10-8 without a knockdown, and Leonard/Hearns was so clear cut... Hearns redeemed himself; but very sadly Leonard won 113/112

 

He had all the tools.My favorite fight with Ray was the Bruce Finch fight, but admittedly he got hurt in that fight.I hated what he did later in his career concerning the politics and stuff, but the 77-82 version was pretty genuine.

 

He fought and beat the best welterweights of his era, and truly earned the name Sugar.

 

Anybody who knocks srls in ring ability shouldnt be listened to imo.

I rank leonard top 3 or 4 p4p top 2 welter & 1 of the most adaptable boxers who ever lived.

Ray had no weaknesses, masterfull.

:good

 

His key flaws as regards ATG status have to do with a lack of Robinson/Duran/Moore type longevity, and among his technical flaws, Ray did telegraph his punches, something exploited masterfully by the more defensively skilled opponents he faced. However, although there was a ceiling on how high SRL could climb against history's very best, he did make the most of the ability he possessed. SRL was no underachiever, but went as far as he could have gone, which was considerably further than his harshest critics (and sometimes, his staunchest supporters), could have reasonably predicted.

 

Who were these 'defensive' boxers who thrived against leonards allegedly 'telegraphed' punches? Did it stop him beating or fighting extremely well against these defensive fighters?

 

Randy Shields was the first one to pick up on this trait of SRL's. Shields decisioned Ray in the 1973 National AAU light welterweight final, so in their pro rematch, SRL's astute management team left nothing to chance, and arranged for that ten rounder to be held in Ray's Baltimore. There has been some question as to what the scoring might have been on neutral turf, but at home, SRL of course took the decision.

Wilfredo Benitez was the next opponent to exploit SRL's tendency to telegraph punches, but in the weeks leading up to the match, El Radar overtrained, walking up two flights of stairs, instead of his customary single flight. (He also worked much harder on his footwork than usual, playing five full games of hopscotch, instead of his regular two games. By fight time, his legs had no bounce left in them.)

Benitez drove Ray nuts in their 15 rounder, but managed to get himself knocked down by a jab, and then again by an uppercut late in the final round, giving the referee a convenient excuse to render a bull**** stoppage with seven seconds left, even though Ray didn't land any follow-up punches.

In Montreal, Duran finally made Ray pay for his telegraphing, making him miss even more badly than Benitez did. (Any notion that Duran was an unskilled defensive fighter should have been extinguished in Canada.) If you've ever wondered why Ray could never hurt Duran, a large part of that is the fact that Roberto saw everything Ray threw at him coming.

Later, Tommy Hearns was also able to outbox SRL badly, in part by picking up on Ray's attack before it could reach Tommy. Ultimately, it was SRL's body attack that led to Hearns wearing down enough for Ray to stop him, after Tommy had secured an insurmountable lead on the scorecards.

Fortunately for Ray, he boxed during a period when most performers near his weight class weren't as defensively skilled as Shields, Benitez or Duran. (It's because of Pernell Whitaker's combination of toughness, defensive skill, and southpaw stance, that I believe he would have decisioned SRL at least as clearly as Duran did in Montreal. That doesn't necessarily mean that I rate Sweet Pea higher than Ray on an all-time basis, but head-to-head, that would have been an extremely bad matchup for Ray.)

 

What were the scorecards for the Leonard-Shields fight, D?

 

agree totally, the way he beat benitez, came back and humiliated duran, went to war with hearns in the first fight make him stand out amongst an already impressive group of welterweights. then to move up throught he divisions so impressively even beatin lalonde at light heavy ffs. thats without mentioning his win against hagler where i reckon he stole enough points early an shaded it make him a definite atg and one of the top p4p's ever.
At welter he had the lot and i also reckon he's possibly the best ever at that weight.

think some of the so called detractors are forgetting his early career and are remembering rematches he had with hearns and duran.
as for his attitude etc outside the ring it makes no difference to his perfomances in the ring and thats what we're sposed to be judging him on in here

 

Probably took a leaf out of Duran's book concerning the De Jesus rematch: home advantage, home referee, home judges, fighting in scorching afternoon heat, wouldn't let Greg Benitez delay the fight, etc etc.

 

I enjoyed the Benitez gags nonetheless.

 

It's not love, it's fact.

The 4 names on his record are HUGE.
Roberto Duran
Wilfrdo Benitez
Thomas Hearns
Marvin Hagler

Say those names to yourself then slap yourself for being stupid.

 

Given that he beat Benitez, Hearns, Duran and Hagler i'd say his ceiling was pretty damn high. You make it sound like he was limited or suspect against pinnacle level fighters. Nothing is farther from the truth. He beat all the great men he faced, and he faced plenty.

 

For whatever it's worth, this is from boxwreck.com:​

According to Referee Tom Kelly: 49-43 SRL
Scored by Judge Ray Klingmeyer:47-44 SRL
Scoring of Judge Harry Cecchini: 48-45 SRL​

Footnote: Cecchini refereed the tenth round, after Shields hit Kelly with a punch in the ninth round.

In Randy's previous match, the supposedly featherfisted Benitez dropped Shields for the count in six rounds. Why was Ray not even able to floor Shields where Wilfredo kayoed him cleanly? Simple. Randy saw what Ray was ,sending his way, and was able to avoid it.

If Benitez was on top of his game, he didn't just possess legendary elusiveness, but also equivalent accuracy. This enabled Wilfred to put Shields down and out, where SRL, Hearns and Cuevas failed to do so. At his very best, there was no sign Wilfred's punches were coming beforehand, a much overlooked part of his repertoire.

 

Once again JT, please bear in mind that I was as hard core a hater of SRL as there could have been, prior to his performance against Hagler, so for me to credit him to the extent I have is actually stunning to those who knew my attitude towards him early on. (Given the fact that he maintained top condition, that he wasn't able to maintain Archie Moore/Roberto Duran type longevity is truly a mystery to me. I can only guess that he failed to evolve new skills to replace the decline of youthful advantages. If Ray had that longevity factor enjoyed by Robinson, Duran and Moore, he should have defeated Terry Norris and Macho Camacho.)