Let's Hear It For Sugar Ray Leonard.

Awesome post hahaha

:good

 

show her Macho pounding Ray and you'll come out with triplets like I did. :angel :angel :angel

I really don't have to give a round by round breakdown to find fault with Ray when all I need do is ask reason for his comebacks and watch you all clam up from embarassment.

That's about it from me. So while you're watching another a controversial match with controversial scoring, I'll be watching Norris dominate the lesser of the two Sugar Rays complete with knockdowns and no controversial scoring. :blurp

 

I have Leonard at #2 in my Welter list and he is more often than not top 5 in my P4P list.

I've wondered why so many people have a problem with him here on ESB. Despite the resevations people have about his personality or attitude outside the ring, this should not affect anyones assessment of him as a fighter. He was top notch, very classy, had underrated power, blinding speed, great skills, a massive heart and could adapt to anything. He would always find a way to win.

I did have him losing the 2nd Hearns fight, a draw was a bit much. However, his win against Hagler was fully justified, Hagler just got outsmarted and outboxed. The man had the ability to win a round in the last 30 seconds, these were not gifts he got from judges, rather, it was a testament to Ray's immense ability and cunning.


Strangley, I find he tends to get more love here in England than he does in the US.

 

I will address your points, Sweet Pea. I can see you are a fanboy.

What makes you think Leonard made Duran quit in the rematch? Leonard didn't have Duran in any trouble. Duran wasn't cut up. Leonard was only slightly ahead on points when Duran quit. One thing is for sure, it wasn't a knockout, technical or otherwise. Whether he was unprepared or whether he was sick (or both), Duran didn't lose the fight to a man with any superior ability. Duran surrendered the title. People who twist Duran quitting into Leonard making Duran quit prove themselves to be fanboys. Sorry, but it's true. I hear this "Leonard made Duran quit" **** and I know right away that I am dealing with a person who creates convenient truths for themselves.

Hearns had Leonard on the canvas twice and outboxed him in most of the rounds. How you can say a draw was justified is another big chunk of evidence exposing you as a fanboy. Leonard didn't outbox Hagler. No offense, but this exposes your ignorance of how to score fights. What counts for a fight is forward momentum and clean, hard punching. What counts against a fighter is running and making clinches. Hagler was doing the first things. He made the fight. Leonard was doing the second. He was bent on surviving and trying to steal rounds with shoeshining. You were deceived.

LaLonde wasn't much of a fighter, I don't care how big he is. A good little man will beat a ordinary bigger man. Leonard beat LaLonde, but it shouldn't have been close. Didn't LaLonde have Leonard on the canvas? Kalule was a good boxer, but if Leonard was as great as everybody said, he should have had an easier time with Kalule. When Whitaker moved up and beat 53-1 Julio Cesar Vasquez, he won by clear margins. No knockout needed. And Whitaker moved up from lightweight!

Which brings me to this point. "Why does Whitaker deserve to rank above him at WW?" Are you kidding me? Why would anybody need to justify Whitaker's greatness compared to Leonard's? Whitaker defended the world welterweight championship EIGHT times and really never lost the title in the ring, as de la Hoya came up short in a fight the judges gave him. During his reign, Whitaker beat Buddy McGirt and Julio Cesar Chavez (that draw was bull****). Leonard posted half as many title defenses and his two biggest defenses, against Duran and Hearns, resulted in a loss and a boxing lesson before Hearns lost his legs. Whitaker's fights against McGirt and Chavez weren't close. Leonard was beatable officially and in fact. Whitaker was not.

I never said Duran was ahead in the rematches. But for you to say that Leonard is "easily" better than Duran at welterweight when Duran kicked Leonard's ass at 147 pounds is proof that you cannot judge Leonard's legacy fairly.

 

Yeah, Hearns losing his legs had nothing to do with the punches he was taking. He seemingly lost his legs in the 6th and 7th too. :good

 

Is the rumour true that Hearns's legs were actually left back in the locker room by a member of the Kronk team?. Even when they found his legs, which were attached my Steward between rounds, they never done him much good in the end.

 

Sugar Gay is a bum. Imagine what would've happened if someone like Breland or Judah ever faced him.

 

Yeah, that would have been some laugh.

 

Referee Richard Steele made an interesting comment in one of the many HBO features made for Sugar Ray. He said that when Leonard faced Marvin Hagler, he was so surprised that Leonard was holding his own, outboxing the bigger man, pushing him back when he got too close, and then hooking to the head and body. But later on he added that everytime he watched the fight after, it got closer and closer everytime.

Now, I've never scored the fight for Marvin. But this quote by Steele certainly rings true for me.

 

You're right. No matter how hard Leonard tried he couldn't put Hearns on the canvas or, in the end, put him away. He needed the referee to do that.

 

Ray was the King of Boxing in the early 80's. In my lifetime he is still the greatest welter I have ever seen. He was, as others have already posted, the complete package.

 

If Leonard were the complete package he wouldn't have major problems with Norris. Ray was a huge favorite.

 

How about Camacho getting whupped by Haugen and Chavez?

 

He wouldn't have stopped it if Tommy had the decency to actually punch back instead of looking like a big soft lemon. Hey, Leonard was knocked down twice vs Hearns and had Tommy out on his feet in the last round- I didn't see Hearsn turn anythinga round in the first fight. Hearns had **** all left. Tommy largely dominated, Leonard turned on the gas, fight was stopped. Nothing else happened. :good