Let's lay it to rest once and for all

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by robert ungurean, Apr 17, 2019.



  1. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

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    One man's opinion on these ridiculous Mythical proportion Marciano posts.
    Let's be honest already. Enough with the guy trained harder than superman BS threads they've spun into fairy tales at this point.
    As far as who the man can beat well I'll tell you who he CANT beat .
    PRIME FOR PRIME
    Louis
    Lewis
    Foreman
    Frazier
    Liston
    Holy
    Holmes
    Klitschko's
    Bowe
    Dempsey
    Johnson
    Ali

    50/50
    Tyson
    Lyle
    Shavers
    M.Spinks
    Norton

    I get it Rocky punches very hard ..is in great shape and has a will to win. But these guys dont?? They are all in great shape.. some hit harder..some have way better boxing skills and most are just as determined...too many multiply advantages for Rock to overcome...yea it's just my opinion but I'm sticking by it!!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  2. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Active Member Full Member

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    While this is true (Tyson put into the wrong category), in fact Rocky does not have to match the listed fellows!

    Rock mostly fought below 190 pounds himself, while his median opponent was some pounds bigger. He does not need to be matched with a, compared to the 50s, SHW devision of 215lb boxers. He defeatet who was there, most of the time convincingly, without picking up a single loss. He also retired without major permanent damage. Someone might argue: He took the job, worked mostly flawless and left at the right time. A ton of ATGs became shot try and error gold diggers, with alot of them recieving significant amount of body harm at the latest stage of their career.

    Its not Rockys problem. Problem is his delusional frantic fanbase, who want their Duran beat Qawi, DeLeon, Ocasio or Holyfield.
     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who exactly claims Marciano beats everyone ?
    I see a lot of these posts from yourself and mcvey and others talking about "delusional Rockistas" and "deluded fanatics" who deny Marciano's limitations, but I very rarely see anyone claiming Marciano was invincible or whatever ... . ?

    It seems like a complete strawman.
    If someone says "Rocky has a good chance here" or "Rocky was a great fighter" it seems you all come out with this stuff about deluded Rockistas making claims of his invincibility.
    I just don't see it with Marciano.
     
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  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    robert ungurean lists 13 men "Rocky can't beat."
    Yeah, maybe.
    Maybe there are 40 or 50 who'd be favoured beat prime Marciano !
    In the whole of history .. that would still make Marciano a superb and dangerous foe and wouldn't exactly mean it must be "delusional" to give him chance against X, Y and Z.
     
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  5. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

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    You act like your opinions are the end all be all.

    I'm surprised you gave both Tyson and M. Spinks a 50/50 chance, considering Tyson demolished Spinks and was unquestionably the superior fighter.

    I personally disagree with who you don't give him a prayer against, but I'd like to state that I REALLY think he beats Johnson and Frazier. Even Frazier thought he was an inferior fighter to Marciano, not to mention his contemporaries (Ali and Foreman) and Archie Moore.

    I rank Tyson above Johnson and Frazier H2H so I'm surprised you'd only give him a 50/50 while you say Marciano can't beat the other two. (Well that being said I rank Tyson over the Klitschkos and Bowe as well)

    Edit: this is all in good fun and a small critique, I do not wish to start an argument. I've really had enough of them this past week!
     
  6. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Member Full Member

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    I think this will always be an interesting topic for forums...

    but it's tough in a way. The man retired undefeated, and I seriously doubt people like Patterson would have beaten him. Liston...if Rocky could have withstood that jab (an even better one than Walcott and stronger than Louis and Ali's), then I think he might have made Liston quit.

    As far as Rocky eating the jab and getting caught with Sonny's hooks and uppercuts...yikes. I'm not sure anyone could have help up against that in Liston's prime. Do I think he ducked Liston? It's conceivable to me, and for perhaps good reason.

    Again, it's hard for me to critique at length a man who retired undefeated.
     
  7. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Member Full Member

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    Wow. Tyson didn't have much of a heart, was (self-admittedly) on steroids and cocaine both during his peak and later, and was always straight on coming in. He didn't have the size of a Foreman. I just can't see that happening, but then I put the Frazier who beat Ali as being capable of beating any heavyweight (that night only, really).

    Tyson would have smacked the crap out of Joe and possibly knocked him down, but Joe was just way too determined, relentless, durable...and had a heart the size of five superheavyweights. Tyson couldn't have withstood the hooks for more than six rounds imo.

    unless Tyson had a hot threesome with Dianabol and Carrie Cocaine prior.
     
  8. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    Break it down man, How'd you think he wins, I think both would be very entertaining
     
  9. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lolol, I meant H2H. Ironically Frazier is just under Tyson H2H for me, but I rank Frazier higher in greatness unquestionably
     
  10. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Member Full Member

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    Thanks for clarifying, my friend.
     
  11. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm a bit tied up at the moment but I'll be happy to go in depth with the hypothetical later
     
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  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Youngest Ezzard Charles Fan Ever Full Member

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    Haha sure
     
  13. KernowWarrior

    KernowWarrior Cornwalls Finest Full Member

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    In a straight up fight with the Marquess of Queensberry rules being rigorously enforced and a ref/doctors view of cuts, that was late 20th rather than mid 20th century, then prime Marciano i think loses against all the champions in their prime on that list.

    However Marcianos 49-0 cannot be ignored, plus how much punishment could Marciano actually take, could anyone separate Marciano from his consciousness for count of 10, possibly some of those behemoths mentioned above could gas, as Rocky never gave an opponent breathing space, may be Marciano was one of a kind and was able to live up to Dempseys quote of, "A champion is someone who gets up when he can't".
     
  14. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Interesting I am a Frazier guy who rated Joe higher H2H but have them side by side in greatness. I think they are fairly similar in accomplishment during their primes, but Tyson was more effective post prime and for much longer even if he was no longer great at that stage. I think they are fairly close h2h and overall
     
  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Your literally not allowed to make a case for Rocky on here without the Rockophobes going mental.
     
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