Let's remind ourselves that David Diaz is nothing special.

i agree...and damn... his footwork got better... but i still think jmm and pac will always have a close fight

 

that's my point. larios and solis is lucky coz pac became what analysts praised him in david to be, at the wrong time for david. i tell you my friend, in terms of difficulty for pac, david is more dangerous than solis. pac just did what he trained for, for david this time. he can absolutely do the things he did on david to jorge and oscar but why did he did not do those things? simple: he was not yet complete, evolved. i wait for the time pac will meet nate, and if he still showed the boxing skills he showed in the david fight to nate: then i'm correct that he just evolved in the david fight. too late for jmm-pac 2, he could have done it to jmm too. i'll just wait if pac-jmm 3 will be made and if he did that to jmm what he did to david, then i'm correct.

 

We'll to be honest, imo it becomes a styles issue.......

Pac is'nt the greatest boxer, but he's not that bad either.
I would say that Pac is a pretty good boxer, but nowhere close to the very elite of the sport today.
.....he makes up for it with other aspects of his game of course.....

....but my point is that it becomes alot easier to outbox someone and shine with your boxing skills when they're facing a much slower opponent....the slower the opponent, the easier it is to outbox.....

At least from what I've seen since Pac beat MAB for the first times and a few fights before then that I've seen, David Diaz is by far the slowest fighter of both hand and footspeed that I've seen Pac meet.

Can anybody name me a fighter in recent times that Pac met that is slower than Diaz.

The slower you are, the easier it is to get overwhelmed by speed and quickness.......and what was it that came out of David Diaz' mouth during and after the fight?

Diaz did'nt praise Pac's power or boxing skills, he just said, "I underestimated his speed. I just could'nt cope with his speed."

....and the slower you are like David Diaz, the more prone you are not to be able to deal with that speed.

Fighters like Larios and Solis are fighters that are much faster than Diaz. Logically, Pac would'nt find it as easy to display his boxing skills vs them than he did with the much slower Diaz.
With Larios and Solis, Pac was more reliant on his power advantage that vs D. Diaz, that power advantage had narrowed......thus Pac relied on the fact that Diaz was slow to easier incorporate more boxing to his game.

The fact still remains, a boxer is not going to overpower Pac, just like Pac is not going to outbox a true boxer!
These are just facts my friends!

 

divac, i wish you can post in my thread aout if pac is no longer 1dimensional. just made it a while ago. i wanna see your opinion.

 

I gladly will take a look at it tommorow evening California time.....

.....right now, its damn past 3am, and I've got a 7:30am wake up call to be at a work site.
I should'nt even have been browsing this site now, much less post on a thread.

I'm off to get at least a few hours sleep, I'll get back to your thread tommorow.

I'll gladly opiniate!:good

 

I did read somewhere that Pac really trained his right hand for this fight. So the improvement that we saw must be new. But we have to see first if those right hands will still be existent on Pac's next fights.

 

divac, honestly and i want you to, you don't hate pac at all but hate some of his fans here so i just want to have an honest justified converstion with you. Have you notice improvements in pacquiao? Ok, i do agree diaz is slow but i see pacquiao is improving as a boxer, even use his arms a lot to block most of diaz punches. And even if david was slow, i think its the still a well deserved accomplishment the fact that he is facing guys bigger than him. It is a fact though the smaller you are the faster you will be. So i really don't think you should discredit the win because diaz is slow but perhaps look at it in a fair way that on the other side diaz is a big lightweight who even used to fight at 140, strong and tough fighter

 

There is one simple thing to take away from this post, David is not JMM

Its true, Pac probably has improved but its easier to showclass those improvements against someone like Diaz where he can do what he likes. Against JMM, its more dificult to pull off some of those moves.

Should JMM-Pac 3 happen, it will be a close fight, unless Pac KO's JMM (possible) or JMM manages to stay standing all through 12 (possible).

Another thing I will say though is, people went and jumped on the bandwagon when Guzman won a close fight with Barrios. Barrios to me is a very simmilar fighter to David Diaz, only smaller...but no way Guzman did to Barrios what Pac did to Diaz. I remember when people were saying barrios would be too big for Pac, and Juan Diaz were too big for Pac but I always maintained that Pac would look great and demolish come forward fighters like Diaz, Juan or Barrios. Hatton is a different animal though.

 

And did I say Pac was anywhere near close to the elites today in terms of boxing skill? I just said he improved, doesn't mean he's a suddenly a great technician. But you can see the obvious that he has noticeably improved in that department.

I urge you to watch the Larios and Solis fights again because I don't know where you get this idea that they are much faster than Diaz. They're faster but not by much. Watch the fights again

Oh and btw, Diaz is slow but not 'molasses slow' as you like to say. Diaz gave a pretty good account of himself when he fought Santa Cruz who has decent speed himself.

 

You got it all wrong CJ, I dont hold any hate for even the most irrational Pac fan on this board, but I wont hesitate to educate them when need be.
In their high for Pac, somebody has got to bring them back down to earth, and what better than for them to hear it from someone in the know!

I have opiniated on Pac's boxing improvement before.

Alot of people took note that Pac was incorporating a little bit more boxin finesse, and using his right hand more from way back during his rematches with Erik Morales

I noted back then that I too saw some improvent in his skill, but that I did'nt see it of the magnitude that most Pac fans made it out to be.
.....although Pac had improved vs Morales, so too had Morales regressed, and done so more significantly than what Pac had improved.

While alot of people here were dissapointed with the fight MAB and Pac gave in their rematch, I was one of the very few posters around here
that noted and gave Pac props for the way he went about using his speed, and quickness, at a time where MAB gameplan of lateral movement and jabbing relied and required for Pac to come to him.
Pac was smart enough to not take the bait, and actually turned the tables on MAB by forcing him to come to him.
.....when Pac's speed and quickness forced MAB to have to be the aggressor, essentially MAB was'nt brave enough to have to take the risks that comes with being the aggressor.
A fabulous gameplan executed nearly to perfection from Pac.
I was impressed, but also noted at a time when Pac fans in particular were of the opinion that Pac could do the same with JMM.....
.....I noted that the gameplan that Pac executed well vs MAB, would not work against JMM, because JMM had more dimensions in his punching arsenal other than a jab that MAB set to rely on.

Pac is a good enough boxer that he can execute his boxing against a fighter who is out to just use his left hand, which was MAB.
To do it against a masterclass boxer like JMM who uses both hands equally effeciently and is alot better at finding punching angles, would be a whole other ballgame for Pac to solve.
.....and I was right. It was Pac's left hand power that saved him in the eyes of those that are enamored by knockdowns.
Other than the knockdown, JMM pretty much controlled the pace and tempo of the proceedings, and at least from my point of view, clearly outboxed Manny Paquiao.

Did I see some boxing improvement form Pac, from his first fight with JMM?
The only thing I can say is that he showed more versatility than he had done back then, by being a bit more patient and not being as predictable with his one, two's .....but at the same time, because of Pac's patience and using more of his right hand, I thought during the fight that it opened the avenues for JMM to land consistently with harder punches with both of his hands than he had done to Pac in fight one.

Let me put it this way. I believe Pac has gotten good enough that he can make adjustments as long as he's been practiced to fight a certain way in the Gym, as he did vs MAB........
He turned the tables on MAB in their rematch, because the Pac team knew exactly by watching MAB's rematch fight with Rocky Juarez, that he would try and do the same to Pac in their rematch.
....so Pac was specifically schooled in training to be able to adjust and handle the move and jab strategy that MAB employed.
MAB was so scared to consistently try anything other than the jab and move, that Pac never had to make any other adjustments during the fight.
You could see that MAB troubled and actually got the better of Pac, whenever he did anything other than jab and run.
The few times that MAB got aggressive, he actually got the better of Pac, but MAB was too timid and never had the audacity to sustian it.
A quality performance by Pac nonetheless.

What alot of Pac fans are not seeing, is that Pac has'nt gotten good enough, and most likely never will......is too make the in ring adjustments to compete on a round by round basis with a complete fighter like JMM, who is'nt at all timid to let his hands go and will make adjustments from minute to minute, albeit I"ll admit there are very few JMM's in boxing today, and so that truly makes Manny Pacquiao a hard beat for most fighters in boxing today.

A great boxer makes adjustments on the fly, round by round, minute by minute, and even second by second.
My honest opinion is that Pac is an improved boxer, but is'nt and most likely imo, never will be good enough to be labeled and called a great boxer, thus imo other than actually scoring a KO of one, will most likely never legitly win by decision vs a great boxer fighting at a high level.

.....and before anyone gets excited, as I dont consider Pac to be a great boxer, I do consider Manny Pacquiao to be a great fighter.


I likely went a bit long, but you asked to be educated CJ!

 

divac, you always write a very long essay in your replies. i think you are making good points but your messages are just too long. hence, i don't read them. can you write a shorter reply to be reader-friendly? thanks man.

 

thanks divac, i read all of your post. I do agree with your points on pac. I saw some improvements like i said but i'm not overhyping his improvements but pac as a boxer is getting better and imo it is essential if he wants to stay in the game long enough. About jmm, you are correct. Pac relied more on his natural ability, and if a 3rd fight with jmm comes he should rely in it more. JMM is simply a nightmare for pac. How do you see him against hatton then?

 

No problem, your post was great:good

 

divac is writing such a very long essay and i'm requesting him to shorten them. i have to at least give something positive in return.

 

I hear you hmi...

My belief is that for those that are really interested in the thread topic.
An explanation of how I"m processing my belief is required so that the readers can know where I'm coming from.

I can just make a simple comment like "I dont consider Pac to be a great boxer, I do consider Manny Pacquiao to be a great fighter."
....and leave it at that.
But what of real value am I providing the reader, without backing up why I feel that way?

.....and besides, I cant think of Manny Pacquiao without thinking of JMM, and vice versa.....
There's is a topic that I have a passion for as I respect both enjoy watching both perform.

When it comes to discussing them, Its hard to stop myself, as I have alot to say.

.....but I do hear you hmi, and if I can, will try to be more brief if I feel I can make myself understood in doing so.

I've had days where I have some business to take care of in the real world, and I find myself quickly browsing this board before getting to the necessary business to survive in this world.....and I hear you, when I'm in a rush, sometimes I find myself skimming and not thoroughly reading through a long post.

.....but when I have the time which is generally in the very late evening. I just soak in a nice educational long post.

If I can be brief and make my point, I certainly will keep it in mind!:good



Oh oh, did I go too long again?:blood atsch