Lets settle the did tyson duck foreman debate

This. Nailed it.

 

What Qawi got away with on Foreman tends to colour my opinion. A short, short-armed fighter whom comes in a lot....sound familiar? And Mike was one and a half times the fighter Qawi was.

So, as an amendment, do I think comeback George beats 1988 Tyson? I think Mike might have decisioned him (George never went down in his comeback, even against Morrison). But post-jail Mike gets taken out early, maybe in seven.



If we're talking 70s Foreman, Mike doesn't make it past two rounds, same as Norton and Frazier. Mike's ferocity would have worked against him in a fight with Foreman. He was so intent on coming in, coming in. POW! Night nights!

This content is protected

​

 

The luckiest thing that happened to the comeback Foreman is that he did not fight Tyson in the early nineties .. he would have been blasted out early and his entire legacy would have changed ... Tyson's speed and power would have been way too much and I see it ending like the Berbick match.

 

"At this time, Evander Holyfield was getting ready for his sixth fight as a heavyweight against Seamus McDonagh on June 1 in Atlantic City. On the day of the Holyfield-McDonagh fight, I went to grab something to eat with Georgie Benton, Lou Duva and Bobby Goodman. At the time, Goodman was, and still is, Don King's matchmaker. I've known Benton for many years, through him I met Duva, and was introduced to Goodman a couple weeks before Tyson fought Larry Holmes at the Convention Center in Atlantic City in January 1988.

While we were eating, Benton said, "Bobby, what's up with Foreman and Tyson, how come they're not fighting each other on the 16th? Isn't that the fight that King was trying to make?" He said, " Georgie,You'll never believe this but, F*ckin' Tyson is scared sh*tless of Foreman and wants no part of him. I was there when Don was trying to make the fight. He was telling Tyson that Foreman represented huge money, plus he was old and slow and would be no problem. Tyson got up and screamed at King saying, 'I'm not fightin' that F*ckin' animal, if you love the motherf*cker so much, you fight him!'"

Goodman stated that Tyson said Foreman was much better than people thought, and was a dangerous fight for any of the top heavyweights. Goodman proceeded to explain how Tyson was calling Foreman a big con man, and explained that the grandpop act was just a front. He said Tyson saw Foreman as trying to set up the boxing world into thinking he was a pushover, knowing that he really wasn't. Tyson said Foreman was a wolf in sheep's clothing. Goodman continued to say that after seeing Tyson's response to King trying to push him into a fight with Foreman, he had no doubt that Tyson had fear of Foreman. He also said that from that point on, he felt that if Foreman and Tyson ever fought, Foreman would knock Tyson out!

Throughout the lunch Goodman, Duva, Benton, and myself shared stories and thoughts on the fight game. Out of the blue Goodman said, "Oh I remember why else Tyson wanted no parts of Foreman. He said that King had found out from Steve Lott that Tyson and Cus D'Amato used to watch the Frazier-Foreman fight over and over." He continued saying that Tyson loved that fight because he was awed by Foreman's power and Frazier's toughness and how he kept getting up after every knockdown. He also said that Lott told King that Cus sat alongside Tyson saying, "It's suicide against Foreman if you're short and fight a swarming attacking style like Marciano or Frazier," never figuring that Foreman could be a possible Tyson opponent down the road. He said that Cus said the only fighters who had a chance against Foreman were, tall rangy fighters who could fight him from a distance while moving away from him, and no way any swarmer could beat Foreman by going to him.

Those are the words of the man who actually had a hand in trying to make the Foreman-Tyson fight, and was in the room when the negotiations broke down. Over the years, I've talked to many people who were involved with Tyson and Foreman and they all verify the story, every one of them. I have also talked to people who were involved with promoting Foreman, including Ron Weathers who promoted a few of Foreman's comeback fights. He told me the same story. The fight didn't happen because of Tyson being fearful of losing to George. Bob Arum also said that he dreamed of making Foreman-Tyson. He said it would be huge money and that Foreman would stop Tyson easier than he did Frazier. This is something Arum often repeated to the press. I have also heard this from George's brother Roy who was his business manager. I co-hosted a boxing show with Roy in Atlantic City for a little less than two months and this was a regular topic when discussing Tyson. Anyone who covered boxing at the time or knew any of the involved parties knew of this. It's not breaking news.

It is absolutely a fact that Mike Tyson was afraid to fight 41-year-old George Foreman--the same Foreman who Evander Holyfield would fight and beat in April of 1991. I have not a doubt that had Foreman and Tyson fought anytime between 1990 and 1997 that Foreman would have knocked Tyson out inside of three rounds. Tyson just has nothing to beat Foreman with; his edge in hand speed would have been a non-factor. He can't beat him by backing away, and he would have gotten his head handed to him if he brought the fight to Foreman. In addition, Foreman was bigger, stronger, tougher and hit harder. Not to mention the fact that Foreman had a better chin and no fear or doubt, unlike Tyson, who was full of fear and self-doubt".

-Frank Lotierzo, Why We Never Saw Foreman-Tyson, Boxing Scene, Mar 7 2005

 

This content is protected

 

All respecrt, but I'm not entirely convinced on that.

The problem is exactly that heightened propensity for being hit that Mike had post-Rooney. Holyfield, Stewart, and Morrison all moved more than enough to mess George up...Mike came straight in. In fact, Mike was significantly less effective when he moved around a bunch.

I wouldn't place a bet George would win, however I wouldn't confidently bet against him in this fight, either.

 

That's just Foreman being humble in his old age. Nowadays he's all about praising other fighters and downplaying his abilities & successes. He actively pursued the Tyson fight as it can be seen from video attached in the OP. The reason why fight never materialized is because Tyson was absolutely terrified of him.

 

obviously, he wasn't as good as Alex Stewart. It makes sense that George scared him. Ruddock looked much less menacing

 

Because George's career is a bucket full of great stories, this narrative is a colourful, supportive angle to big up the legendary quality of the legend himself. But I can't say that I buy it at all, because of the context Seamus is pointing out.


It doesn't hold up to any scrutiny. It serves to detract from Tyson with those misperceived character flaws he and his victims supposedly had also. It pulls double duty as an old chestnut.

 

I mean Tyson being terrified of Foreman is pretty much common knowledge at this point ... You are free to pretend otherwise, though.

 

Did you even watch the interview you posted? Foreman literally says there Mike was scared of him, lol. I guess you just saw part of the quote and got all excited xD

 

The other option that no one ever suggests is that Don King was the one scared of Foreman. Tyson might have had reservations about Foreman's confidence and power or he might have truly been ambivalent. It's usually the manager who is afraid of their fighter losing and for logical financial considerations.

That being said, the big money fight was Tyson-Foreman in Tokyo and that is obvious. It didn't happen. And it wasn't Big George who avoided the fight.

 

Or maybe Tyson remembered what the duck master Cus D'Amato said: "no swarmer will ever beat George Foreman".

 

well, maybe... Apparently he was also terrified of planes... Just like Cassius Clay. I'm not really afraid.
We all know that if Tyson had fought Foreman instead of Ruddock, the haters would have eaten him up. We would certainly then have heard the story that Tyson had a hysterical attack when he learned that Don wanted to sign Ruddock to me.
If he was afraid of the plane, he had a phobia, and if he was afraid of George, it must also have been a phobia because it certainly had no logic. To be afraid of George in 1990 and not to be afraid of Ruddock - idiocy. Apparently Alex Stewart wasn't afraid, you can easily argue that he was braver or better than Tyson. And I'm braver than Clay and Tyson because I'm not afraid to fly

 

Actually it was Foreman who didn't want to sign with King when the latter made several offers.
The story of Tyson being afraid of Foreman is a total invention (and it was debunked in this thread I believe).