Lets settle the did tyson duck foreman debate

Ive just been backing Liston to beat Ortiz actually. Would i do that if i hated him?

I also backed Foreman (young Foreman) to beat ibeabuchi among others. I have no issue with young George.

The issue i have is with comeback Foreman. people including the entire legacy when assesing him when he was just an old guy doing his thing.

 

1995
Title Vacant

1. Riddick Bowe
2. Lennox Lewis
3. Mike Tyson
4. Michael Moorer
5. Evander Holyfield
6. Bruce Seldon
7. Frank Bruno
8. George Foreman
9. Alexander Zolkin
10. Henry Akinwande

Ok George is the linear champ at this point and its only worth #8 in the ring ratings. That means there are 7 better heavyweights.

Being extremely generous, i think, if my life depended on it, i would only be nervous about Bruce Seldon and Alexander zolkin not beating George that year.

I would say Foreman looks one of the most beatable on that list alongside zolkin and Brucie.

I coukd sleep at night wonderfully well on the eve of George fighting Bowe, Lewis, Tyson and Holyfield. Absolutely would not lose a wink worrying that those prime men couldnt beat old george.

I might be a bit restless trying to get some kip the night before George fights either Akinwande, Bruno and Moorer though, but id still expect them to pull through against Foreman.

 

The comeback didn't look that way to me (of course, we're all different, it's what makes forums fun). The only thing I concede to is how George padded his record so outrageously in the beginning.

Watching the Qawi fight again last night...you know, George threw a lot of arm punches in that fight, got hit WAAAY too much, and basically looked like he was losing through most of it. Do I think that George could have beaten the Tyson of the time? Again, we're not considering all the elements (such as the potential fact that George really underestimated the lowly light heavyweight against him), but I say probably not. That George was not what he was shortly before the Holyfield fight, and I don't like how long he took to get somewhere.

That said, I only put Holmes, Bowe, and Holyfield up against the George of Rodriquez/Holyfield fight. Holmes would have jabbed him silly on the way to perhaps a boring split, Bowe would have crunched him out in 11, and Holyfield...well, we all saw that (and I think that might have been George's peak in regard to the comeback..he definitely looked like a conceivable top 3 heavyweight at the time, easily).

Again, these are just my thoughts, and I've reconsidered the value of this topic as the questions and reasoning at times have been pretty damn compelling imo.

 

In all fairness to George, it is amazing the level he reached in his comeback. Against the same men George was able to replicate the exact same result as Holyfield and Bowe. If you asked Coetzer or Rodriguez they would have to say George was the equal of Holyfield and Bowe. That takes some doing. I also think, whilst Cooney was no longer relevant as a professional fighter at that time, George looked very good beating him. Extremely clinical finish too. So yes, comeback George really was a good fighter in his own right. So far as contenders went, for a time, there was a window where he was as good as all them but the champions. That is a huge statement for a guy returning to boxing after 10 years.

But that is as good as it got. Once George was Beaten by Holyfield he struck a great deal whereby he could get a champions purse effectively picking any fighter he liked. For a non champion this was a great deal. He could make championship money. This meant everybody wanted to fight him and George could take his pick from the ones he thought he could beat. What an amazing deal. Each Foreman fight was huge money.

A match well made is a match half won. And this flatters George just when he began to struggle. He had already reached his level losing to Holyfield. Had he continued as a normal contender without that deal he would have been forced to meet other contenders he could not handpick for himself. Say Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Henry Akinwande or somebody like that. By the time he lost to Holyfield George was practically all out of name fighters he could beat. So this deal saved him. Sure he beat Moorer, but to keep going without that golden deal, between losing to Holyfield until that opportunitywith Moorer he ordinarily would have had to fight stiffer opponents than Stewart and Morrison who I don’t think he beat anyway.

 

How could anyone hate that fine young man? JK

 

I don't think Ruddock at his best could beat Foreman at anytime during George's comeback after he got whatever rust off..say 89-94. Foreman would drive him into the ground the same way he did Cooney. Jerry not as tough but technically much better than Razor.
George wasn't stupid he would smother that left and Ruddock would be on the canvas mutiple times depending on the referee. Razor was truly a one handed Fighter who was no longer utilizing things Foreman was vunerable to like a left jab and straight right.

 

This is true by the time Razor fought Morrison. Certainly not durong the fights he had with Tyson. He had too much sauce for George.

 

He always had poor balance, telegraphed his left. George would eat him up. His jab alone would be too much.

 

It’s a question of pace.

George selected guys who were either not as strong physically which would allow him to dictate the pace.

Ruddock was too lively and too big. George wouldn’t give away size and speed.

Watch Ruddock against Bonecrusher. Razor is all wrong for George. And he knew it.

In his prime George nearly did not get away with it against Ron Lyle. He learned a lesson there and never forgot that.

 

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Guys like Ruddock were a bad match for Foreman.

 

1. George Foreman
2. Oliver McCall
3. Riddick Bowe
4. Michael Moorer
5. Lennox Lewis
6. Herbie Hide
7. Larry Holmes
8. Henry Akinwande
9. Jorge Luis Gonzalez
10. Lionel Butler

 

Foremans entire comeback was smoke and mirrors......

He fought nothing but bums except Holyfiled and Moorer......was used as a Heavybag by Holy and needed the 11th hour hailmarry to waax a glass chinned Light Heavy whose only claim to fame is catching Holyfieled at a bad night...........and still only got by barely.

Jab, Uppercut.....yade yada yada.........in his prime Foreman was slow, Ali called him the "Mummy" because he was so slow and bounced lead rights of him like they were candy, a insult to any pro fighter to get nailed by lead rights.....

In his comeback he was even slower.......Holyfield landed at WILL but his limited firepower prevented him to stop George but he came close.

Cannofodder Stewart/saverese?Schulz stood right in front of him despite his "power" but Foreman was simply to slow to pull the trigger and he went life and death looking like a ripe grapefruit afterwards.....

He could not catch glass chinned freaking Tommy Chin......... because he was slower than Molasses of hand and foot.

Moorer used him for target practise and also stood right in front of him until his glass chin gave out to one punch.......you aint getting out Tyson with one punch.................Lewsi landed his best right hands on the Ghost of Mike Tyson multiple times, the same ONE shot that put Rahman into a coma.......and still Tyson was in the fight.

Foreman rated number 1........lol......he was such a killer that before he met a opponent worth a lick he rather get stripped before facing anybody with a pulse like washed up contenders like Tucker who was beat 12 to zero by Tyson when Tucker was undefeated and prime.

Foreman used the manny Pac method to ride on Mayweather back to get exposure and market his fight while claiming he gets "ducked".....we all saw when they met that pac was nothing more than a sparring session for mayweather.......and the same would happen if Tyson would have fought the Old man......he would stop Foreman without much fuss, speed kills and Foreman would hardly lay a glove on him...the difference in speed of foot/hand and reflexes is immense.....if light punching Holyfiled can rattle off combination after combination on old George than Tyson would put his head into the cheap seats because the difference in power is ten fold...........

Tyson took on the most avoided and most dangerous contender in Razor Ruddock at that time but he is ducking the Mummy.......it tells you right there that the Boxing knowledge of this board is nil................comeback Foreman was always a novelty circus act with the added bonus landing a lucky shot and get stripped afraid to engage a threat................but but Crawford Crimsley.........

 

It would have been a HUGE PPV Fight. Foreman wanted it, so ask Don King and Mike, who picked easier marks.

 

making someone a favorite in a fight sure makes you a fan.

 

LOL WBA Rankings. Rodrigues was there to be taken, over rated.

Tyson, the post prison version didn't want to risk the fight. The money was there, like you said a blockbuster pay day.