Lets Swap Calzaghe and Hopkins Opponents and see whos Best ?

By what virtue would Kessler beat Hopkins?

 

PS: Prime Roy Jones would have knocked Joe out, 100%. His speed and power vs Joe's susceptibility to the right hand, statue head and sloppy defence = only one result.

 

Another reason why this doesn't work is that they fought at different weights. It's far easier to assume a supermiddle beats a middle than the other way around. Of course it's easy to assume that Joe Calzaghe would have been too strong for Jermain Taylor, but would a 40+ year old Calzaghe have been too good for a Jermain Taylor-standard prime undefeated supermiddle? This is a different question entirely from merely superimposing their opponents onto each other. And this is before you even consider that many people felt Hopkins won one or two of the Taylor fights.

 

Hopkins would have beat Kessler clearly on points - he took Pavlik's right hand away and would have done the same to Kessler, and certainly wouldn't have been badly hurt by several uppercuts in the 4th round.

Young Jones would have stopped Calzaghe I agree.

There isn't any basis for ranking Calzaghe above Hopkins, either H2H or on accomplishments - Calzaghe held a fringe title for years in a weak division, allowing several fighters to co-exist as champion, whereas Hopkins was undisputed champion in a division of comparable quality.

As for their actual fight, I scored it to Hopkins - he put Joe down, won each of the first four rounds and didn't take a clean punch all night, made the opponent fight his fight etc etc..... if American judges didn't place so much emphasis on workrate and aggression, Hopkins would have received the nod.

 

That's how I see it. He would've treated Calzaghe's offence like Brannon's then tore into him, landing on him at free will.

I can imagine Calzaghe lasting the onslaught and read******g, but Jones would hit him at will from any range. Calzaghe would try his best but he'd be majorly outgunned I fear, and taken apart within 8.

 

Hopkins has a clever right hand. Jones has an athletic right hand. They are very different and it is only the one type Calzaghe is open too.

Jones beat everyone because he was faster, his punch and reflexes than them.

Against someone as quick as Joe that is somewhat negated.

Once Jones lost his speed and reflexes he lost to Tarver and Johnson. He did not have the skillset to fall back on.

Against Calzaghe he cannot rely just on speed, that is silly against Calzaghe.

Calzaghe wins, would be silly to suggest otherwise given the evidence.

 

:rofl

You are really scraping the barrel here..... travelling to England from Newbridge is **** all - and neither was going to Germany to fight a guy he had already destroyed in one round

TWO trips to America - WOW! Ricky Hatton had fought in Germany and America x2 before fighting for the British title in 2000 - and has since fought in the US about six times.

Benn and Eubank both had many fights in the States - fighting your last two fights there, one of them against a guy that hadn't beaten anyone with a pulse for five years is hardly something to shout from the rooftops about.

Calzaghe was an exceptional fighter, one who had the ability to change a gameplan that wasn't working in order to win - but please..... he is no ATG. His resume is pretty shocking, if Haye beats both Klitschko's and retires immediately after, he'd go above Calzaghe in an all time British list.

 

Calzaghe would beat all the fighters mentioned in your note.

1. Pavlik - Calzaghe would be too fast and too slick. If Hopkins schooled Pavlik, so would Calzaghe.

2. Winky - Calzaghe does everything Winky does and better. He is also bigger and stronger, and much more active. Would look like the PW fight.

3. Tarver - Calzaghe too fast, too active, too clever.

4. ODLH - Calzaghe too big, too fast, too clever, too active. Plus ODLH would gas at the pace Calzaghe would set.

5. Trinidad - would be too one dimensional for Joe and would be out slicked and stopped. Would resemble the Lacy fight.

 

I should add...

Lets Swap the Opponents of Thomas Hearns and Mike McCallum and see who's Best:

Prime McCallum beats Cuevas, Duran and Benitez.
Prime McCallum loses to Hagler, Leonard
The 175 McCallum who beat Jeff Harding also IMO beats Andries & V.Hill

But McCallum never loses to Barkley at 160 or 175
The fat cruiser version of Mike probably would also lose to Uriah Grant.

So, McCallum has done better with Hearns's comp than Hearns did, going by Trampie's system.


Prime Hearns beats Jackson, McCrory, Curry
Prime Hearns vs prime Kalambay? Tough call.
Prime Hearns beats Graham, Watson
I'd back prime mw Toney to beat the mw Hearns, and the cruiser Toney to beat the cruiser Hearns
Jones Jr knocks Hearns cold at 175
Hearns probably beats Harding & Tiozzo at 175

All in all, McCallum has done better over the course of both resumes, so he is a greater fighter than Hearns, according to Trampie's logic.



Let's Swap the Opponents of Vitali Klitschko and Evander Holyfield and see who's Best:

I can't be bothered going over it all in detail again, but Holy beats everyone on Vitali's res except Lewis (same as Vitali), while Vitali would probably lose 2-1 to Bowe as well, beat that version of Tyson twice, "draw" and lose in two with Lewis - but VitKlit is never losing to Moorer, Ruiz, Toney, Byrd, Donald, Ibragimov, Valuev.

All in all, Klitschko has done better over the course of both resumes, so he is a greater fighter than Holyfield, according to Trampie's theory.


Conclusion: This kind of comparison is utterly pointless, as Hearns and Holyfield are clearly greater than McCallum and Klitschko. The circumstances surrounding the bouts can never be the same nor ever would be the same, these hypotheticals have no value whatsoever.

 

:roflatsch

Avoided?

The resume of opponents that Calzaghe didn't fight is probably stronger than the one that he did.

Taylor
Froch
Old Hill
Maske
Ottke
Woods
Michalcszewski
Gonzalez
Young Dawson
Johnson

vs

Shot Eubank
Shot Jones
Kessler
Hopkins
Lacy
Manfredo
Bika
Sobot
Pudwill
Veit

:yep

 

This seems somewhat circular.

With that sublime jab of his, and near-impenetrable defence?

Simples.

Well, Calzaghe's a SMW. If you boil him down to a 160-size fighter, I don't see him easily outboxing even that version of DLH.

Thanks for your detailed analysis.

I'm not saying JC doesn't beat any of these guys, but it's far from the foregone conclusion the OP seems to deem it.

 

Calzaghe has a better jab than Ronald Wright.