Let's talk about James Jeffries

Yo Senya, any names on that list of 20? I'm interested.

 

How was Munroe a Joke? He was only beaten badly once in his career. Munore lasted the distance with Jack Johnson, while Jeffries pulverized him in 1 round, with Munroe's people dragging him to his corner to give the fans a 2nd round of the mascare. I dare say Munore was on par with many of the white hopes that Johnson fought.

 

Munroe had one win of any note on his record ,Tom Sharkey,but when examined closer we see that Sharkey had not fought in two years ,and had been kod in that fight ,and had a no contest because of lack of action inthe one before that ,in short he was no longer the Sailor Tom who had ploughed in to Jeffries four years before.The fact that Munroe went 6rds to a nws with Johnson means nothing, so did Joe Grim and Tony Ross.
Some of Munroes opponents
Alf Allen 3-7-4
Billy Murphy 0-0-0
Hank Pardello 0-0-0
Montana Jack Sullivan 0-0-0 [This was a draw]
G Stokes 0-0-0
Dennis Ike Hayes 3-8-1 [ A no Contest]
Al Limerick 0-0-0
T Mulverhill 0-0-0
W Rodenback 0-0-0
J Galvin 0-0-0
C Millward 0-0-0
J Welsh 0-0-0
That is ten fights against men having their first fight. Munroes only other win of note was over the alcoholic Peter Maher who was badly on the slide.And had been kod that year by the light hitting LH George Gardner.

 

This is whythere was public interest in a Jeffries Munro fight.

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I still do not see why you call Munroe a joke. Wins over Sharkey and Maher, going the distance with Hank Griffin ( a fighter who defeated Jack Johnson ), and Johnson himself. Munore was only stopped once vs Jeffries. Hardly a joke, McVey.

As we know records of those 0-0 fighters are inc.

 

So the records are incomplete when it suits you ,but Not when it doesn't ,ie Jeffries was a novice taking on contenders so his record is complete ,but those who fought Munroe ,himself a Jeffries victim ,may have had other fights?.The fact that Munroe was a joke in my opinion ,does not mean you have to rush out and bolster up his resume to make Jeffries beating him look more than it was.You and Janitor won't hear a word of negative critiscism against Jeffries,why build up MUNROE , a fighter who was ordinary ? Do you think it inflates Jeffries ? MUNROE HAD TEN FIGHTS AGAINST MEN WHO WERE HAVING THEIRE FIRST FIGHT. MUNROE NEVER BEAT A FIGHTER OF ANY NOTE WHO WAS NOT a AN ALCOHOLIC WRECK,OR b WAY PAST HIS BEST AND COMING OUT OF RETIREMENT.END OF STORY.

 

I am not building Munroe up I am trying to explain why there was public interest in matching him with Jeffries.

As for the issue of completeness of records, I will say that it is safe to asume that all records from this period are incomplete. I would be surprised if there were any exeptions.

 

From what I have read of the four round exhibition with Munroe ,in 1903,a fat and out of shape Jeffries was dropped in the third round with a left to the body ,while he was off balance ,[this occurred when Jeffries was touring with Fitz],a pissed off Jeffries got up and chased Munroe around the ring but could not finish him.Munroe managed to last the next round and was declared the winner ,ie he had gone the four round distance.A fight manager named Harry Pollack ,took Munroe in hand promoting him as a worthy challenger to Jeffries with exaggerated tales of the exhibition.Nat Fleischer describes Munroe
as really a "third rate proposition".This is what he says".Munroe got plenty of theatrical bookings and fought a few 6 round exhibition bouts against carefully selected pushovers.He was accorded a tremendous amount of publicity by sporting writers who should have known better.Perhaps they did ,but many went to absurd lengths in promoting the Munroe stock.So great was the praise of the miner, that Jeffries was forced to accept his challenge for a title bout.As might have been expected the match was a howling farce.Whatever Munroes shortcomings might have been he had never seemed to lack courage.Yet when facing Jeffries ,he acted like a rabbit in a hungry python's cage .The first round ended with Munroe prostrate on the canvas.Thje second saw him reposing supine .This time the bell did not save him and he was counted out".In the light of this article I feel I am more than justified in calling Munroe's title challenge a joke,or if you prefer Fleischer's description "a howling farce".

 

I would say that Munro was at least a fringe contender who got a lot of publicity for his four round sesion with Jeffries.

When John L Sullivan offered $1000 for any fighter who could last four rounds with him hundreds tried for it and only one (Tug Wilson) ever managed it. Wilson managed it by going down virtualy every time Sullivan hit him.

When Jeffries put up the same offer it was always going to be important is sombody ever extended him the four rounds. People were going to take notice of whoever did it.

 

Im not blaming Jeffries for this sorry affair ,it seems he was put in an impossible position,if he fought Munroe, the challenger would be exposed as the amateur he was ,if he declined he would be accused of avoiding him.It just rankles when this fight is held up as a meritorious victory for Jeffries.Munroe and Jack Finnegan had as much right to be fighting for the Heavyweight Crown as Ron Stander and Terry Daniels.

 

I would rate Fingan beneath Stander and Daniels as a challenger but Munroe was probably a bit better.

 

Didn't happen.

 

On what basis do you make this judgement?

Janitor posted a contemporary article which certainly says there was a knockdown. I haven't been able to find a New York Times contemporary account of the fight, but later articles definately said there was a knockdown. The Times even referred to a nine count in their obituary of Munroe.

 

Strangely enough I don't think that whether it happened or not is all that important.The tale was told that it had ,told ,and wildly embroidered on.A cagey manager took Munroe in hand and made hay while the sun shone.What we do know is what happened when they fought in earnest,or rather when one of them fought in earnest.The result was a joke of a fight ,and a travesty of a title defence,for which the Champion would appear to be blameless for the most part.What was it Lincoln said ? "You can fool all the people some of the time".

 

Based on two local reports. The only report that claimed that Jeffries was knocked down was the Associated Press one, which doesn't even mention that it was Munroe himself who was down multiple times. Jeffries in an interview several days later said no less than 12 times, probably exaggerated a little, but that's at least three sources which claim Munroe was down. AP writer mentioned none whatsoever. False wire report is not something very unusual.