Let's talk about James Jeffries

Take a chill pill McVey. It seems like your temper gets the better of your reason at times. Munroe was not a bum as you ascertain. As I mentioned before he lost decision to two excellent fighters( Griffin and Jack Johnson ) , drew with a excellent fighter ( Hank Griffin ) beat two older past their prime Hall of fame fighters ( Sharkey and Maher ), was only KO'd once by a hall of fame fighter ( Jeffries ), and defeated the rest.

I dare say that in 1904, Munroe was a top ten contender.

 

OLD FOGEY,

I read the Bute miner, which was a primary source for the exhibition match. Munroe never scored a knockdown, but he did last the distance and collect $500.00

 

I am going to try to track down and post the original fight reports. I phoned the Butte Public Library and they have three newspapers on microfilm from 1902 and 1903 and will be willing to send me copies of the articles if they can find them.

There seems to be a great deal of disagreement on what happened in this fight and I am getting very curious.

 

I found the New York Times report on the Jeffries-Munroe exhibition from December 22, 1902. While it seems to be about what Janitor posted, albeit shorter, I think it is worth posting as it is, after all, the prestigious New York Times.

"Butte, Montana, December 21:

"Champion pugilist James Jeffries tonight lost a decision in a four round contest with Jack Munroe, after four rounds of the fiercest fighting Butte has seen for some time. At one time the champion went to his knees and a knockout looked possible. Jeffries and his manager had posted a forfeit of $250 for any one to stand against Jeffries for rounds and Munroe accepted the challenge. At the end of the fourth Munroe was still ready to fight. Munroe is amateur champion of the Pacific Coast. Fitzsimmons has posted a forfeit of $500 to put Munroe out in four rounds."

 

My own comments:

1. This correspondent is writing from Butte and seems to have followed Butte boxing. As Butte was the largest city between Minneapolis and the west coast in those days it is not surprising that a major paper would have a correspondent stationed there.

2. The man seems to have been at ringside and the report seems to have come immediately after the fight.

3. Jeffries lost the fight and Jeffries not only seems to have been knocked down, but to this correspondent seems to have been badly hurt enough for a knockout to be possible.

Most interesting, I think.

 

I wonder why Munroe and Fitz did not fight ?

 

I don't know, but there was probably no major upside for Munroe to fight Fitz if he had scored a victory over Jeffries. Let's face it, exhibition or not, Jeffries had to give Munroe a shot if Munroe got the best of him in this fight, and a knockdown, if it in fact occurred, certainly sealed the deal. Why chance losing it all by taking on Fitz?

 

That would be my take on it,I think Jeffries was put in an impossible position really ,he had to fight Munroe,and Munroe's manager knew it.A blow out by a 40 year old Fitz would have killed the golden goose.

 

The piece in BDE, NY Times and tens of other newspapers around the US came from the AP. I have it in Colorado Springs Gazette (Dec 21, page 15) and in Lexington (KY) Herald, Associated Press is credited as the author of this piece. I also have next-day semi-local report (pretty long one, covering other bouts from the same show too) from Anaconda (MT) Standard, which states that Munroe was down once in the 2nd round, three or four times in the 3rd (gong saving him), and multiple times in the 4th round ("Munroe would go down from a punch, but would come back again after the count"). Something which the AP author fails to mention completely. It has no mention of Jeffries being floored or being closed to being floored or being close to being stopped, yes he was out of condition and puffing heavily, but it was Jeffries who was winning the fight, and Munroe's only intention was to last the distance.

This is like giving victory to Tug Wilson, when he stayed four rounds with John L., having been down two dozen times in 4 rounds.

 

Right. Munroe's manager milked the event, got a false report out that he had Jeffries down, and parleyed lasting four rounds where Munroe suffered multiple knockdowns into a real championship match with Jeffries.

Jeffries was on quote saying this was the one time he did not feel sorry for his beaten opponent. In fact, when a dazed Munroe kindly asked Jeffries if he could allow him to make somewhat of a showing, Jeffries said not a chance.

Here is the NY times write up of the fight:

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9F00E6D71E3BE631A25754C2A96E9C946597D6CF

 

The New York Times report which mentions the knockdown was sent out the night of the fight. Did Munroe even have a manager at this point?
The report is datelined Butte, and I have to assume the correspondent was at ringside. How can you be certain he did not report what he saw?

The 1904 fight shows Jeff was the better man, but does not prove anything particular about the 1902 fight. This is like arguing because Lennox Lewis dominated Hasim Rahman in their second fight, the reports that Rahman knocked Lewis out in their first fight are obviously false.

 

The New York Times and the Brooklyn Eagle seem to be separate stories--The Eagle writer obviously was not at ringside but referring to dispatches. The Times writer seems to have been at ringside off the evidence of his report and is writing from Butte.

Anaconda is not Butte, but a town to the west in the mountains. Where did you get any report from the Anaconda Standard? The Butte library does not carry it but does carry the Butte Miner.

I have no idea what the truth is, but I would hardly jump to the conclusion that the New York Times report from the scene is inaccurate, even though we can read the original text and know it is the original text, which I don't know about the Anaconda Standard. Have you read the original newspaper or a xerox of it?

The reason I raise this issue is I have come up with a report from the Anaconda Standard from 12-24-1903 prior to Munroe fighting Mike Sullivan which refers to the Jeffries fight. I must say it seems very smoothly written to be from an obscure western mining town newspaper. I will try to post it tomorrow.