Let's try and improve Primo Carnera

mcvey · Apr 4, 2014

Unforgiven said: ↑

Max Baer had dropped a 6-round decision to sparring partner Willie Davies (a loss mistakenly attributed to Art Oliver in some older record bookd) in his outing previous to the Dutch Weimar fight .... so, it's not exactly beyond reason to suspect that Weimar was under orders. I mean, there's a possible motive.
On the other hand, YES, it's not hard to find guys "lacking in ambition" when they step in with such a renowned puncher.

But, I would imagine that was the case with most of Carnera's bad fights too.
Throw a washed-up, out-of-shape, fourth-rate 185-pound ham-and-egger in with a 270-pound man-mountain and you could expect him to be looking for the way out. Don't you think?
Doesn't matter if Carnera can't fight, or couldn't punch - his sheer size and strength is no joke.
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Think the Davies fight was an exhibition, curious affair really .

LittleRed · Apr 4, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

My beef isnt with you, its with Janitor who twice made statements and when called on them shut up shop.I detest that.
He said both Baer and Braddock were in fixed fights. Baer's opponent may have suffered from a real lack of ambition but since he and his manager were only getting $400 to face one of the hardest hitters ever its possibly understandable he took the easy way out.No charges were ever brought against Baer. Braddock had his licence revoked because he went into a fight with a broken hand, during the fight he re-injured it, breaking it in two places in what was described as a grotesque injury with bone fragments being visible under the skin he wasnt slung out for engaging in a fixed fight , nor did he quit he did the best he could until the referee called time on it and slung them out.
Liston and Baer could both hit like a horse kicking, and both had top chins .

Carnera was lacking in power especially for his size. There was always the danger that

1. His chin would be found out and 2. he would be out pointed by a smaller more agile operator .

Janitor, who does not have the balls to admit he has no evidence to back up his claims, blackens the names of two men who had real balls. That's what pissed me off
You gave him a lifeline to crawl out with and he took it without providing jack **** himself. Have a good day.:good
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I agree with point 1 but as for point two if Tommy Loughran couldn't do it I'm not sure it was going to get done. At least for guys that size.

mcvey · Apr 4, 2014

LittleRed said: ↑

I agree with point 1 but as for point two if Tommy Loughran couldn't do it I'm not sure it was going to get done. At least for guys that size.
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Loughran was a bit past his best and just too small to handle Carnera who stamped all over his feet, nearly crippling him.

janitor · Apr 4, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

Legitimately beat ranked contenders ?.

Well lets look at them.

Godfrey is believed to have fouled out on purpose.

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Leon See said that the Godfrey fight was on the level, so if you are going to treat him as a reliable observer when it comes to the fights that he aledges to have set up, then you presumably have to give him credit for beating Godfrey.

Loughran was outweighed by over 80lbs past his prime ,and was never off his feet.
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He was the #2 contender, whatever size he was.

Lasky was unranked .
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I could be wrong, but I thought that he was. He was certainly ranked for a significant period, soon after this.

Uzcudun was unranked.
Gorman was unranked and believed to have gone in the tank anyway.
Maloney was unranked.

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Probably, yes.

Neusel retired with a cut eye an injury he carried in the ring from his last fight against Jack Peterson some months before.
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A stoppage on cuts is as legitimate as any other.

Schaaf was a "dead man walking".

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He certainly should not have been alowed to box. I imagine that he would have made a full recovery if he hadn't.

Whatever the circumstances of the fight, it was still a fight to establish the next title challenger, and Carnera still won it legitimately.

Striblings two fights with Carnera are widely held to be fakes.
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In my opinion they likley were.

Levinsky's two fights with the Alp are thought to be legit.
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Levinsky was a key player in the division.

Sharkey comfortably won the first fight dropping Carnera, the second is viewed with suspicion till this day.
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Not by me.

So what do we have?
Wins over Levinsky,Loughran , and Neusel. That is not," the most important part of his record intact," far from it!

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Obviously Sharkey is his most important scalp, and I am happy that it was on the level.

I guess that Schaff was his second biggest on paper, and we know the deal with that one.

Loughran was his third biggest win because of his high ranking (second biggest in practice).

After that his key wins would be Levinsky, Hamas, and Neussel, the former two being key to establishing him as a title challenger.

I take it you won't be providing any evidence to back up your smears of two now dead heavyweight champions?
Pretty shameful in my view.

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What evidence do you want exactly?

I said that alegations were made against them, and they were.

Bear in mind that much of what you are dealing with in Carnera's case is just alegation.
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janitor · Apr 4, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

Janitor, who does not have the balls to admit he has no evidence to back up his claims, blackens the names of two men who had real balls. That's what pissed me off

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mcvey · Apr 4, 2014

janitor said: ↑

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See was only one man making those allegations .the US press was full of such stories.

mcvey · Apr 4, 2014

janitor said: ↑

Leon See said that the Godfrey fight was on the level, so if you are going to treat him as a reliable observer when it comes to the fights that he aledges to have set up, then you presumably have to give him credit for beating Godfrey.

He was the #2 contender, whatever size he was.

I could be wrong, but I thought that he was. He was certainly ranked for a significant period, soon after this.

Probably, yes.

A stoppage on cuts is as legitimate as any other.

He certainly should not have been alowed to box. I imagine that he would have made a full recovery if he hadn't.

Whatever the circumstances of the fight, it was still a fight to establish the next title challenger, and Carnera still won it legitimately.

In my opinion they likley were.

Levinsky was a key player in the division.

Not by me.

Obviously Sharkey is his most important scalp, and I am happy that it was on the level.

I guess that Schaff was his second biggest on paper, and we know the deal with that one.

Loughran was his third biggest win because of his high ranking (second biggest in practice).

After that his key wins would be Levinsky, Hamas, and Neussel, the former two being key to establishing him as a title challenger.

What evidence do you want exactly?

I said that alegations were made against them, and they were.

Bear in mind that much of what you are dealing with in Carnera's case is just alegation.
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Neusel went into the fight with an injury sustained in his previous fight,factor that in the legitimacy of the win..

Carnera never fought Hamasatsch
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janitor · Apr 4, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

janitor said: ↑

Neusel went into the fight with an injury sustained in his previous fight,factor that in the legitimacy of the win..

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Carnera never fought Hamasatsch

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I meant Lasky.

My apologies.
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janitor · Apr 4, 2014

mcvey said: ↑

See was only one man making those allegations .the US press was full of such stories.
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janitor · Apr 4, 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZEEgw84l5o

mcvey · Apr 4, 2014

janitor said: ↑

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I dont have any interest in debating with you further, because your opinions are of no value or interest to me.

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