Let's try and improve Primo Carnera

The onus is upon the person asserting something to prove it. Therefore, the burden of proof is upon those claiming that a large number of Carnera’s fights were fixed. If they are unable to produce significant evidence to support their position, then you have to regard it as being highly questionable, if not rejected by default. So my question has to be, what evidence do we actually have here?

 

You have no argument except you're obviously a bored person. I don't take you seriously at this point.

 

I have an argumenbt, and it is a rather simple one.

There is a general paucity of evidence for the alegation that a large number of Carnera's fights were fixed.

 

Get him taller sparring partners.

...Like Robert Wadlow, age twelve:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yDKo7fJ387w/T7Ewzy_ftGI/AAAAAAAA3ug/9kR_ctcM0cM/s1600/8.jpg

(Yes, the guy on the right who looks like a little kid is Carnera).

 

Proving very strong suspicions is difficult how many boxers are going to come out and say," yeah I went into the tank in that one."?

Fights of Primo's that are generally held to be setup fakes are.
Elzear Rioux, Rioux was fined for his "effort."
Chuck Wiggins
Big Boy Peterson x2
Young Stribling x2
Seal Harris .He was Carnera's sparring partner and part of his entourage.
Bud Gorman.

Two fights in which opponents were threatened with dire consequences if they decided to win.
Leon Bombo Chevalier
Roy Ace Clark

It is thought George Godfrey deliberately fouled out to Primo too.

Billy Duffy in later years said they realized early on that Carnera did not punch his weight, nor did he take a good punch ,consequently they kept him away from bangers unless there was an element of arrangement involved.
Primo was taken on extended tours of the hick towns to fatten up his record against part time boxers and wrestlers,and if they were of sufficient ability to hold their own those that were willing to," do business". were given preferance. The mob got away with a lot of bouts that would not have passed muster in more sophisticated venues.

I would not say the vast majority of his results were predetermined, just that the on the level ones usually had such a sub standard ,lacking in ambition opponent in the opposite corner that no arrangement was deemed necessary.
Carnera did not get thrown to the wolves until they put Baer in with him, after that all bets were off ,and he was quickly exposed in some one sided slaughters.eg Louis and Haynes.

 

Why don't you name us some that were?:think

 

this

 

We have the testimony of his former manager, Leon See and the man that took him over after they froze See out.Broadway Billy Duffy . See claimed the following fights were fixed in Carnera's favour.

1928
Sebillio
Thomas
Reggirello
Islas
Niles

1929

Humbeeck
Thomas
Barich
Nicolaieff
Stribling1
Stribling 2


1930
Peterson
Rioux
Owens
Martin
Sigman
Erickson
Lodge
Montgomery
Zavita
Wiggins
Trafton
McAuliffe
Clisby
Wright
McCarthy
Gross
Christner
1931
Torriani
Gorman
See claimed 31 fights were fixed, so not quite half.

 

What standard was this guy..seen him ranked highly in some peopled All time non american list...as benchmarks how would he matchup v say Bruno or Mason. ?

 

Nice find. :good

 

So basicaly it comes down to the testimony of Leon See, which for obvious reasons is unreliable.

 

Max Baer and Jimmt Braddock for a start.

 

That...is a lot of bribe money.

 

It is a lot of bribe money, spread across a lot of different countries, often to a very tight time schedule, to a lot of fighters who would not have had a cat in hells chance of beating Carnera anyway.

I think we are justified in treating this claim with skepticism.

 

In my opinion, not well.