Let's weight awhile

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Mr. Blobby, May 21, 2009.


  1. Mr. Blobby

    Mr. Blobby Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Feb 28, 2009
    here's an interesting article on weights By Ed C. Tolentino

    Garry Guzman, a certified boxing fanatic, sent via e-mail an interesting query relative to Manny Pacquiao’s pursuit of another world boxing title.

    To quote the pertinent portion of the missive: “Manny is facing Miguel Cotto come November or December at the catch weight of 143 to 144 lbs., but I’ve also learned that Cotto’s WBO [World Boxing Organization] welterweight belt is at stake which means Pac has to weigh-in at 145 to 147 lbs. to earn it, right? How can he claim a fifth linear [welterweight] title or an unprecedented 7th title, if the agreed weight was 3 to 4 notches lower?”

    While it remains to be seen if Cotto is indeed next in line for Pacquiao, Garry’s take on the weight issue makes for an interesting topic. It will be recalled that Pacquiao’s camp had earlier said that Pacman’s move to welterweight (147 lbs.) last December against Oscar De La Hoya was only a cameo appearance. Following the Filipino’s devastating knockout of Ricky Hatton for the fringe International Boxing Organization (IBO) junior welterweight (140 lbs.) diadem, Pacquiao is expected to stay within the vicinity of the junior welter class.

    There had been loose reports of a Pacquiao-Cotto showdown-taking place at a catch weight of 144 lbs. Under this set up, Pacquiao’s IBO junior welter title will not be at stake, as the fighters will be weighing in beyond the 140-lb. limit of the division.

    A likely scenario would be Cotto (33-1, 27 knockouts) putting on the line the WBO welterweight title he won on February 21. This is where Garry’s query comes in: Cotto fights at the welter limit of 147 lbs. If the Puerto Rican’s fight with Pacquiao takes place at the catch weight of 144 lbs., can their showdown still be billed as a welterweight title match? If Pacquiao beats Cotto, can he be genuinely considered as a welterweight champ when he never really fought Cotto at 147 lbs.?

    We answer the questions in the affirmative. The weight limit for the welter division is fixed at 147 lbs., which means the boxers competing for the welter belt must tip the scale at a weight not exceeding 147 lbs. When the fight involves a challenger who is moving up in weight, there have been instances when the defending champion would require the former to show up at a weight that is at least within 5 lbs. of the prescribed limit (or 142 lbs., following the welter limit of 147 lbs.) This is for the champion to ensure that the challenger would really put on extra weight.

    In the 1930s, Henry Armstrong won three world titles in three separate weight categories—featherweight (126 lbs.), lightweight (135 lbs.) and welterweight (147 lbs.). However, in winning the three world titles, Armstrong never really fought at the exact weight limit. When he won the welter crown in May 1938, Armstrong weighed only 142 lbs.—5 lbs. off the 147-lb. limit. As he did not exceed 147 lbs., Armstrong’s win over Barney Ross was recognized as a legitimate win for the welter belt.

    In 1988, the World Boxing Council (WBC) made a mockery of boxing rules when it allowed Sugar Ray Leonard to fight Donny Lalonde for two world titles. Lalonde was then the WBC light heavyweight champ (175 lbs.), but the WBC allowed Leonard to show up in the ring at only 168 lbs. The WBC even created the super middleweight crown—with a weight limit of 168 lbs.—to expedite Leonard’s hunt for multiple crowns. Leonard, lighter and faster, knocked out Lalonde in 9 rounds and handily won two crowns in one night.

    Oh, lest I forget, under the rules boxers are allowed to hydrate after they officially make the weight. The hydration process takes place after the weigh-in or 24 hours before the actual fight. When Pacquiao fought Hatton, he officially weighed in at 138 lbs. After hydrating for the next 24 hours, Pacquiao gained an additional 10 lbs. and actually fought Hatton weighing 148 lbs. Pacquiao’s weight was just 6 pounds short of a junior middleweight (154 lbs.). He was never really a junior welter when he fought Hatton.

    Dig this: If boxers are allowed to bulk up after they officially make the weight, and actually fight under their bloated weight, what’s the use of observing weight limits for each division?
     
  2. Lewisbell

    Lewisbell Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Aug 16, 2008
    I think that the weigh in should be on the morning of the fight, and actually enforce weight divisions
     
  3. futonrevolution

    futonrevolution Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nov 22, 2008
    The "bigger man" depends on who can train the hardest without hurting his power/speed/general performance. Not allowing boxers/wrestlers/etc. to rehydrate after weigh-in would be quite dangerous.

    There's no real way to gauge excessive weight manipulation other than by their performance later on or by the "smell test." ...and judges' nose certainly vary. Is that really a decision we'd want in, say, Joe Cortez's 'firm-but-uncallused' hands?

    edit: Unless you're Popeye, rehydrating isn't 'bulking up.' Weighing in is *supposed* to measure the fighters' pure weight, without the variable water weight getting in the way. Naturally, there's times where the guy with the better camp is going to have an advantage there.

    And, yeah, of course the WBC was wrong to use Leonard as an excuse to milk more championship money for itself. That's hardly unique.

    The actual abuses of the system are generally drug-related. With real consequences for failed tests, that'd be less of an issue.