Lewis-Bowe, who wins?

Bingo, great post. Both their chins were fine, it's Bowe's lack of defense combined with Lewis' power that would be the difference.

 

:roll: you are making excuses for a fighter you like.

Had the situation been reversed and it had been Lewis throwing a belt away rather then facing Bowe your tune would be completly different.

 

True .Bowe on the other hand AVOIDED most punchers in the most puncher heavy era at HW Lewis fought and beat every legit puncher in his era.

 

Bowe's ability to take punches in being brought into question????? I've ****in heard it all now, he absorbed punishment throughout his career and even when he was pretty much shot (Golota 2) and dropped he still managed to drop Golota himself (even if he did get battered badly)

I think Lewis takes it simply because he's the better boxer. There isn't much between them really; both 6'5, both had a great jab, both could put serious punches together but weren't known as 'K.O' artists.

Personally I think Lewis takes it on points; Bowe ducked him for a reason, and that's because psychologically he was probably affected from his loss to Lewis in the Olympics. And for the fact that Lewis seemed pretty formidable at that stage too.

The Lewis Chin debate has gone on for too long, I think he had a decent but not cast-iron chin, that is obvious. He took enough shots from HW's to prove he wasn't glass jawed, and was sparked twice by two decent if not massive hitters, I'm afraid that sometime happens when 16 stone men hit you flush on the jaw.

So, in a spirited battle where Bowe pulls back from getting TOO involved (due to his worry that Lewis will put him away, and I believe Bowe felt like this due to the Olympics loss, which by the way was not a KTFO by any means, overhand right, Bowe takes it on the side of the head and ref waves it off.) and Lewis comes through some difficult patches to win a close but clear decision, action similar to say, Cotto-Mosley; intriguing, exciting enough for the casuals to enjoy it, but no one seriously rocked or 'out of their depth'.

Lewis 115-113 Bowe

 

Ah, but were either Gonzalez or Tillman living up to the expectations in the pros, that so many had for them following their olympic runs? I think not. Neither of these men were fighting the quality of opponents who Lewis was facing and certainly not looking as impressive. With few fights behind him, Lewis had convincingly destroyed both Gary Mason and Razor Ruddock - one of whom was favored around 1992 to be Tyson's succesor.

Says the man who repeatedly ignores the fact that Foreman fought young prospects in their primes, while Holmes fought the dug up remains of men like Ribalta and Ferguson - then claims that they were better soley due to their " pedegree. "

Agreed, he had just taken two of the worst beatings of his life from a man whom he was favored to beat. Frankly, I might be inclinded to retire too.

Is it the convenience of hindsite that made you arrive at this conclusion, or were these your true feelings back in 1995? The winner of Holyfield vs Bowe III was for the right in most people's eyes to be called " the best heavyweight in the world, " even though no title was on the line. Upon winning that match, along with beating several young prospects, were you really thinking that it was time for big daddy to hang em' up? Because, I think you would have been a minority.

Do I think he was diminished? To some degree yes.. Do I think he was " shot? " Well at the age of 29, and after putting together the kind of streak that he had just fronted, I'd say that its difficult to claim that he was washed up.. Getting your ass kicked does not always warrant the excuse that you are passed it.. Sometimes you just have to deal with the reality.

On a technicality yes, but in terms of who was dominating those fights? Forget it...

His skills were not gone. He was merely struggling due to a LACK of skill that he never had in the first place. His defense was always questionable and this time it came back to haunt him..

What did Don King have to do with Evander Holyfield being champ at the time and giving Bowe a shot? Nothing. Neither Holyfield nor Bowe were under the umbrella of Don King productions, therfore it had no bearing on Bowe ever getting a shot.

No the only difference is that Holyfield gave Bowe his rightful shot, and when it came time to fulfill the same obligation vs Lewis, he failed miserably.. And I find it interesting how you make concessions for Bowe being past it against Golata, but don't take into account Holyfield's abysmal condition in the third Bowe fight.

That is a gross over simplification of the REAL picture, and does not reflect a vast degree of knowledge from someone who claims to have followed the picture as religiously as you so often advertise.. Donoven Razor Ruddock was predicted by many to be the next heavyweight champ in Tyson's abscense, and prior to annialting the living **** out of him, Bowe's camp sounded pretty adamant about facing him, should they take Holyfield's title. Things changed rather quicklely when Ruddock never survived to see the end of the 2nd round..

Another man who by the way, beat Bowe in the olympics.

True as this may be, it does not explain why Bowe would have beaten him, nor justifies why he threw a freakin' title in the trash - one of the most distasteful acts in the sport's history.

This is not your original position. You speak of Bowe beating Lewis as though it were a forgone conclusion, and while I don't deny the possibility that he may have indeed happened, the circumstanctial evidence and everything surrounding it, does not warrant favoring Bowe.

Was Lewis a " better fighter " than Holyfield was in 1992? My answer is no.. Was he any less dangerous? No... Holyfield did not have the size, youth, or physical advantages that Lewis would have had against Bowe, and on top of everything else, he fought the wrong type of fight. With Bowe's tendency to get hit with strait jabs, and utilize poor defense, Lewis would have possed a greater threat than Holyfield did, and make no mistake, Rock Newman and Eddie Futch knew this....

I was not " brushing off " Bowe, and nor was his amateur results against Lewis the only thing I commented on.. I said a lot more than that. And frankly, its you who make far stronger convinctions about things than I have been making..

 

Not really. I never criticised Lewis for giving up his IBF belt for a couple million and a Range Rover to Don King, although I would have loved to see how Lewis would have done against him. He went for the more lucrative "easier" fight against Kirk Johnson. Because it turned into a fight with Klitschko it was deemed acceptable right?

 

Who did he avoid? At this time who should Riddick Bowe have faced? I would consider Holyfield, probably the biggest puncher at this time, not on pure power, but accuracy and effectiveness. He dropped some of the most iron chinned guys out there, including dropping Bowe in the third fight.

 

Bowe did not have the luxury of doing this. He signed a contract stating that he was obligated to fighting Lewis, should he successfully take the title. He broke a business contract that was binding, and in so doing destroyed his reputation, as well as a chance to potentially make bigger bucks down the road.

 

The primary difference, is that the future of the heavyweight division was not riding on these bouts, and nor did the fans have much interest in seeing them.. The whole world had its eyes fixed on seeing the winner of the Holyfield - Bowe fight taking on the winner of Lewis - Ruddock..

Bowe not facing Lewis gave boxing one of its biggest black eyes, whereas Lewis not fighting men like Chris Byrd or John Ruiz was a mere footnote that most have already forgotten... Another small difference, is that if Lewis had signed to fight Chris Byrd, John Ruiz, or even Wladimir Klitschko, he would have likely been a heavy favorite to beat them. Bowe on the other hand, was an underdog against Lewis - a position that may very well have influenced his ultimate decision.

 

You cant use Foreman as the barometer of a normal fighter, thats what made his feat of capturing the title and being competitive with young contenders such an impressive accomplishment. Fighters can become shot at any time. There is many fighters who had shortened careers, and its something that can be attributed to lack of conditioning, toughness of fights etc. Holyfield was in more wars than Bowe, although he continued to fight and be competitive into his 40's.
Bottom line Bowe in my opinion would have crushed Lewis in the early 90's, the fight would have been competitive with the mid 90's version of Bowe, although if I was betting, I would have still picked Bowe.

 

This to me is why Bowe's legacy will never be what it could have. Whether Bowe could haven beaten Lewis after his fight with Holyfield we don't know, and since there was a signed contract in place, that's a shame and it was the fans who were ripped off of a fight that would have been historic regardless of the outcome. And there is no debate about who's fault it was that this fight never took place.

 

How do you destroy someone in the amateurs after taking one clean shot and not so much as wobbling?

I just addressed this issue of ring smarts. it's just so much pretty talk that doesnt actually apply to the ring when the fighter has someone in his chest. I suggest you take a look at the Mercer fight. Lewis clearly has the inferior stamina, throwing no more than 1 or two at a time before clinching. But I suppose you're just going to brush it off and stick your explanation

 

Yet the last time we had this debate you argued hammer and tong over the fact that you felt Holmes fought BETTER opposition in his comeback. I laid out the list in black and white, and most people agreed with me...

Presumably a position you are taking to brush off the Golata fights as being chalked up to a mere case of " being past it. "

This doesn't surprise me.

 

Exactly,

This was a fight that was meant to shape boxing. It was a chance for the division to have a solid unified champion with undisputed claim to being the best fighter in the world. As it turned out, we were once again left with a fragmented crown and a big question mark scribbled in the pages of history. The fight had almost every bit of the magnitude of Ali - Frazier, Tyson - Spinks, Tyson - Holyfield, Johnson - Jeffries, etc... Its laughable how some here are saying that if they were Bowe's manager that they would have past up this once in a lifetime opportunity to face Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes.. An extreme joke if there ever was one.

When Columbus crossed the Atlantic searching for a land that many thought didn't exist, he was taking a major risk.. When Neil Armstrong became the first man to land on the moon, there were risks. When Ben Franklin errected a kite into the sky, with the intent of harnesting the power of the lightening bolt, there were risks. When Bowe's chance came to do something great, there was a risk, only he did not take the plunge...

 

A match in which one of the participants was in horrible condition, had health issues, wasn't fighting much lately, and still decked Bowe. And let's not forget, that same fighter fought life and death with Bowe on two previous occasions and beat him once... So what's your point.

I was eluding to the two horrible beatings that he received from Andrew Golata - which were quickley followed up by Golata losing in one round to Lewis.

Bowe lost to Lewis in the amateurs, and refused to face him in the pros.. Deal with it..

Yet some how, it didn't stop some of its best participants from becoming some of the best in the pros.. If Lewis beating Bowe in the olympics and winning the gold was soley a result of politics, then Bowe sure as hell didn't make a point to prove it such 4 years later.

KO losses that he AVENGED along with cleaning out a near entire divsion of the best heavyweights - that is of course, except for one who refused to face him.

I don't know what RD stands for, but if its Bowe you're referring to, then I'd say this post is pretty much crap. He fought life and death with a former cruiserweight who was 5 years older, 25 lbs lighter, 3 inches shorter, and ultimately fought the wrong type of fight, yet still troubled him in 3 matches. He would not have so many of these nice advantages against LL ( that stands for Lennox Lewis. )

Funny how you mention yet another man who Bowe lost to in the olympics, then never fought in the pros. ( though he was signed to fight him, before Ferguson upset him. )

Did Bowe's SKILL prevent him from getting his ass handed to him twice by Andrew Golata, beaten by Holyfield in their second fight, floored in their third, or basically outboxed by a 33 year old fatass Tubbs, or nearly rendered out on his feet against Herbie Hide?

Funny how these things work both ways huh?