Lewis/Holmes/Tyson/Liston/Marciano

Tier 2: Marciano
Tier 3: Holmes, Lewis
Tier 5: Tyson
Tier 6: Liston

 

Lewis or Marciano for top spot,
then Holmes,
then Tyson, Liston

'd probably go like that but this is really subjective, in fact i'd genuinely appreciate it if say in a thread like this, the forum could come together and finally clear this up conclusively. That would be really great. I know we sort of did so on the sticky thread, but a proper debate dedicated to this would be great imo.

 

1. Holmes
2. Lewis
3. Marciano
4. Tyson
5. Liston

Head to head, probably...

1. Holmes
2. Lewis/Tyson
3. Tyson/Lewis
4. Liston
5. Marciano

 

I can't have Tyson over Lewis. I was biased forever, you know i'm a lifelong Tyson fan, but i've let go of my last bit of boxing bias that was within me and i just can;t justify him being above Lewis.

I'm a Tyson fan, I'm a Duran fan, probably my two favourites of all time, and i'm passionate about that. But '88 Tyson' and 'Montreal Duran' being used as leverage in debates of legacy or all time ranking really is quite cringing imo. Selective primes? Come on. I'm not jumping to any conclusion that you yourself use this method Matt, i'm just putting forth my opinion on that, i'm sure Tyson's great 'dominance' is about to come up at some point in this one.

 

I had Johnson at 3 when we went official in Rumsfield's rankings.

 

Depends how much you factor H2H.

 

I don´t include h2h or ability in my rankings.

 

Marciano
Holmes
Lewis
Tyson
Liston


But you could order them any way and have good arguments.

Of late, Liston's been rising in my estimate, even though I still have him low in my ATHvy top-15. But I used to think he was straggling along; now I see him as being in the pack. Could fight out, in or middle. Ali was the wrong guy at the wrong time.

Far from certain about Marciano over Holmes.

I tend rank hvy's on how I think they'd do if they came along in each others times (and developed in a way analogous to how they developed in their own time).

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{EDIT}

To me, Marciano's career unbeaten record isn't all that big a deal. What matters to me is that he won once he moved into the big time. If he'd had a loss or two coming up, that wouldn't sway me much one way or the other.


I think 'resume' is a topic that needs much reflection. The big question is, 'Did a fighter treat his opponents the way one would expect a great fighter to treat them'. Also, whether any worthy opposition was ducked.
After that, it can be said that taking on high quality opposition of various styles makes a fighter more knowable, ie, we can talk more confidently about him (or her). But I would never say 'opponents make a fighter great'; only that they help reveal greatness, ie, make the greatness clearer and more knowable.

 

I would rank them


1. Liston
2. Marciano
3. Tyson
4. Holmes
5. Lennox

Note I rate all of these men in my top 7 all time too

Sonny Liston- Best h2h fighter out of this bunch in my opinion. Physical Freak, Great left jab, Two fisted knockout power, Scientific Boxer, Excellent head movement, Solid Chin, very good inside and outside fighter and had 15" fists and 84" reach combined with it all. He cleaned out the best contenders of his era empathetically avoiding no one in the process, and knocked out a hall of famer twice in one round. Biggest knocker is he got dominated then quit against Ali in a legacy defining fight, past his prime or not.


Marciano is underrated h2h. He had freakish Strength. By far the strongest 185lber of all time. His crouching dipping weaving style made him a difficult small target to hit cleanly, and he could throw power bombs for 15 rounds without stopping until the opponent fell. Classic one punch power in his right hand, Great Chin, Incredible Workrate, he beat you up all over your body... you were never the same after facing him. One of the best at punching and fighting with leverage. He knocked out every rated man he ever faced, and went 6-0 with 5 knockouts against Hall of Famers, and pretty much cleaned out the early 1950s heavyweight division. Biggest knock is his lack of size, and the fact he was never tested past his prime.

Mike Tyson- His title reign from 86-89 was the most dominant and consistent title reign of all time. He accomplished as much in a 3 year span, as most champions did in their career. He unified all 3 titles at once, cleaned out the best heavyweights of the 1980s decade, and hardly struggled at at in his title fights. Amazing Combination of Two Fisted Power and Speed, unbelievable finisher, had great technique and deceptive head movement, and a concrete chin. Dominated top fighters with such ease, who had never been stopped before. His biggest knock is he lost to Evander Holyfield in a very important fight, in two disgraceful ways, and suffered the biggest upset in boxing history against Douglas.


Larry Holmes- Possibly the best longevity in heavyweight history, cleaned out the heavyweight division from 78-83, beating some very good fighters in the process. Recorded a great win while 42 years old against a young Undefeated Olympic Champion. great h2h fighter. Best jab in history, lightning like handspeed, sharp straight technical punching, master boxer, huge heart, great chin, One knock is he turned down a mandatory, and avoided a couple other top fighters but most of this occured after 1983.


Lennox Lewis- The most skilled scientific big man in heavyweight history, 6'5 245lb with two fisted knockout power, pulverizing left jab, physically strong, very polished footwork, he made it damm near imossible to get inside on him with his use of range. He defeated every man he ever faced. Defeated a very long list of top 10 rated contenders, and went 3-0 against the two other hall of fame heavyweights of our era. Defeated possibly the biggest group of punchers of all time. Defeated a top contender at age 37 who many today consider the best heavyweight from 2003-2010. Only criticism is he got knocked out twice near his prime by one punch against B level fighters. This never happened to any of the other 4 greats.

 

1)Marciano
2)Lewis
3)Tyson,Holmes,
4)Liston