Lewis/Holmes/Tyson/Liston/Marciano

Well they shouldn't be, at least not Holmes.

I think him fractionating the belts, not thoroughly cleaning out the best, and getting lazy post 1983 was bad. Lewis got beat badly by 2 fighters that had no business beating him the fashion they did. I weigh that pretty heavily, even though Lewis is one of the few men to beat everyone he faced. I think H2H this men are jumped up.

If you factor H2H a lot I think the list should go.

Lewis
Tyson
Holmes
Marciano/Liston (This can be flipped).

 

Where is Frazier. Just below this section?

 

IMO Marciano is ranked maybe 2nd behind Ali for the top spot due to his undefeated record, which is something extraordinary. Holmes is maybe slightly above Tyson but I put him there with some difficulty as he was beaten by Tyson. Also, lost twice to Spinks... who Tyson beat rather quickly. Liston is ranked below Tyson. Lewis is just above Liston. In the late 80s to mid 90s, the prime for guys such as Bowe, Holyfield, and Tyson, Lewis was not heavily regarded for some reason. Also Lewis, while beating Holyfield and Tyson, fought both guys on the downside of their respective careers. Lewis had a prime (1997-2003 approx.)that was late unfortunately (explains why he wasn't taken seriously till later on) and the Rahman loss was a real KO in his prime (or when he was on top); while Tyson has the Douglas loss in his prime, other than that he makes short work of mostly all opponents.... None of the higher ranked ATG's mentioned in this thread suffered such a loss from a lesser opponent while on top. This loss is significantly impacts his ranking because Rahman is someone that he should have not been knocked out by. While Lewis has an impressive resume, he does not rank above the latter four due to the reasons mentioned above. Sometimes I think that Lewis was just at the right place at the right time, he loses to Holyfield (Holyfield win made me take him seriously)if he fought him four years earlier and loses to Tyson if he fought him maybe four years earlier. Lewis primed late, hitting his prime in about 1996 lasting until maybe 2003 till he retired. Lewis was closer to his best (about 2 years away) around the time he beat Tyson. While Tyson has the Douglas loss in his prime, other than that he makes short work of mostly all opponents.

 

Final ranking...

Marciano
Holmes
Tyson
Liston
Lewis

 

Longevity

Lewis
Holmes
Tyson
Marciano
Liston

Resume Top End Quality

Lewis
Tyson
Marciano
Holmes
Liston


Resume Depth

Lewis
Tyson
Holmes
Marciano
Liston

Impressiveness on Film

Tyson
Lewis
Holmes
Marciano
Liston

Overall

Lewis
Tyson
Holmes
Marciano
Liston

 

Tyson and Liston definitely dont belong in the top 7, and certainly not anywhere above the likes of Holyfield and Frazier on any list, ever.

Sort that out first, then we can talk about the order of the other three, which is probably genuinely deabatable.

 

marciano #3 holmes #5 lewis #7. at #10 tyson then i have liston at #14. This is where i list these guys based on beating other xchampions, rated fighters, winning title fights inside the distance and not getting knocked out in title fights.

1 joe louis
2.ali
3.marciano
4dempsey
5holmes
6johnson
7lennox lewis
8hollyfield
9foreman
10tyson11 baer
12jeffries
13 schmeling
14liston
15charles

 

This would be hard to pick, BUT if I go on everything I know, films, records, who they fought and beat, here's my list:

1. Holmes
2. Liston
3. Lewis
4/5. Marciano/Tyson


I picked Holmes as #1 because he had more defenses of his title then anyone else on the list. He was unbeaten in his first 48 bouts. He also had one of the best left jabs and a Great heart.

I picked Liston as #2 because he was the best Heavyweight out there from the late 1950's to the early 1960's. He had amazing power and a very good chin. Experts were comparing him with Dempsey and Louis before he fought Ali.

I picked Lewis #3 BUT if he wasn't KO'ed twice he would have been rated higher, even #1, BUT you can not take those 2 KO loses out of the picture.

I picked Rocky #4/5 because if I put any of the others listed in Rocky's era, they too would of had a perfect record IMO. I could also add a couple more Champions that would also have that record.

I picked Tyson #4/5 because he never really beat anyone that the others wouldn't have beaten. I do think he would have beaten Rocky head to head BUT Rocky's record has to count for something.

 

Muchmoore take a look at my post on the previous page

 

You claim you don't rate rocky highly because "other champions" would have done the same thing he did in his era, yet you then use the holmes "he went 48-0" in his era to boost him into # 1 status? Don't you think the other champions on the list would have gone 48-0 against holmes choice of opponents? I do