Lewis/Holmes/Tyson/Liston/Marciano

Rocky is rated high because of his record. What I am pointing out is that if you put, Frazier, Tyson, Holmes, Ali, Louis, Lewis or Liston in that time period, they too would of had a perfect record too. If Rocky lost to LaStarza or Lowry, like some people thought he did, he would not be rated as high.

 

1. I know this is a repetitive questionable reasoning, but years later it still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Lennox Lewis is the only heavyweight on this list to get knocked out twice near his prime by B level fighters. Yes, I do know how many punchers he faced and how it's bound to happen once when you put your neck on the line like that. But it didn't happen once. It happened Twice. Once is a fluke. Twice is a PATTERN.


2. I do weigh dominance in. Liston hardly struggled with his top opposition in his prime. Lewis on the otherhand, occasionally did(including two losses).

3. Does Lewis have more quality wins than Liston? I guess it all depends on how much you consider Holyfield past it in 1999. Lewis' resume certainly rates near the top.

 

You can't say this.

For one, had Lastarza beaten rocky..Lastarza would be held in higher regard today, thus enhancing Marciano's standing upon his kayo in the rematch.

Two, had rocky lost, he probably would have kept fighting in 56 racking up potential wins over patterson, valdes. Perhaps brought his record up to 55-1. Weill would have been less scared of suffering a L(cuse he already had one) and would perhaps taken on clarence henry in 52 instead of savold.

 

I respectively disagree.

Who would beat Tyson or Liston? Walcott, who was 10-7 in his last 17 bouts before boxing Rocky. Charles lost to Valdez and Harold Johnson less then a year before he fought Rocky. Louis, who was still good, BUT way past his prime when he fought Marciano. His record was 61-1 with 52 KO's in his 1st 62 bouts. In his last 9 bouts before he fought Rocky, Louis was 8-1 with only 3 KO's

Rocky fought his 1st top 10 contender in his 26th bout when he won a close split decision against LaStarza. He fought another 10 bouts before he fought another top 10 contender when he stopped Rex Layne. When he fought Moore that was only the 11th time Rocky ever fought a boxer that was rated in the top 10 when he fought them.

Tyson fought for the World Title in his 27th bout.

If you look at who they fought, Tyson did box better opponents.

Tyson fought boxers with an average record of (W) 22.2758 - (L) 3.5 - (D) 0.3 and
Rocky fought boxers with an average record of (W) 29.7 - (L) 10.16 - (D) 1.8.

Tyson fought 33 different boxers 36 times, that were rated in the Top 10 at one time or another.

Marciano fought 13 different boxers 16 times, that were rated in the Top 10 at one time or another.


Tyson hit very hard. He had 22 first round knockouts and if you count Peter McNeeley, it would be 23 in his 58 bouts.

Rocky had 11 first round knockouts in 49 bouts.

In Tyson's 52 bouts where he either won or fought a NC, he fought an average of 3.365 rounds, if you count the other bouts which he lost, he fought an average of 3.74 Rounds.

In Marciano's 49 bouts, he averaged 4.9387755 rounds.

Liston would have no trouble beating any of Rocky's opponents either. Anyone who ever saw him box would agree to that.[FONT=&quot]

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I know most of the top boxing historians in the sport and they all, say the same thing when it comes to Rocky. If he lost one of those bouts, he would not be rated so high. I do give him credit because of his record, BUT again, several Heavyweight Champions would have done as well, including Tyson and Liston.

 

They are human, stats mean little once they enter the ring.

Liston green did lose to lesser foes than whom Rocky fight. The lost to Marshall comes to mind. Was he any better than the Eddie Ross's or LarSarza's in the early going?

Tyson burn out fast, he would have burn out again. I dont put Douglas over the likes of Charles or Walcott. The Douglas fight was a fight Tyson was not suppose to lose on Tyson's worse day.

I belive Tyson would have lost some were on the way.

 

That's your opinion. You don't know for sure. That's what made Rocky so great. He did everything you could have asked for him to do with his own era. It's amazing the lengths people go to undermine the guy.

 

Marciano would have still made my top ten or top 6 about because he CLEAN out his era.

In the same regards Louis did his or Tyson did his so to speak(Early part)

I relly have a hard time with ranking Holmes over Louis or Marciano or Ali because of this little fact.

 

Marshall was a soon to be rated contender and he beat Liston on a split decision in Sonny's 8th pro bout. Who was Rocky boxing at that time? Did you ever look at the record of Eddie Ross and who he beat.

As for Tyson, I rate him with Rocky because of what happen to him against Douglas, BUT he would not of had any trouble with the opponents Rocky fought. Remember, Buster was a big man at 6′ 3½″, Rocky never fought a rated contender that size or weight.

 

Your right, no one knows for sure BUT I have to go by the facts. I am friends with Rocky's brother Lou and when they had the unveiling of the Rocky Marciano stamp, Rocky's family asked me to be the Master of Ceremonies.

I still list Rocky in my top 10, BUT I just think that most of the guys on this list were a little better.

 

Again, the Walcott and Charles that fought Rocky, weren't the same as they were several years before. Patterson was better then both of them at that time and look what happen to him.

I am not saying that I rate Patterson over Charles or Walcott, BUT at the time they fought Rocky, I do. The same goes for LaStarza. When Rocky fought LaStarza the 1st time, that was in Rocky's 26th bout. At the same time in Liston's career he was knocking out Mike DeJohn, Nino Valdez and Cleveland Williams.