Lewis/Holmes/Tyson/Liston/Marciano

Liston beat all the top contenders before he became Champion. No one wanted to box him. He should of been Champion several years before. Only Ali could have beaten him at that time. If Ali wasn't around, Liston would have stay Champion for several years, maybe until Frazier came along.

Your right about Tyson, BUT back in the 1950's he wouldn't have that going on around him. Overall I rate Rocky above Tyson, because of his record, BUT one on one, I rate Tyson above Rocky.

Frazier was the most aggressive heavyweight ever. He would have walked right through the boxers in Rocky's era. He only lost to 2 boxers, Ali and Foreman, and I don't see Rocky beating either one of them.

 

1. You forgot Bethea for Liston's list. Bethea was in the Ring Magazine top 10 when Liston fought him.

2. Lewis's resume is impressive...but I feel he is missing that one signature win, a win over another prime great fighter. I guess you could say Holyfield, but just how good was Evander still in 1999? Was tyson any better of a win than marciano's over louis? Still good wins, just not great wins.

3. Interesting...most of the 'boxer' types on the list(Klitschko, mercer, bruno, holyfield,) all gave him fits at some point in their fights. Would Lennox have issues with perhaps the better technical boxers in heavyweight history? Maybe i am cherrypicking here. Lewis certainly picked tony tucker apart(even if tucker was past his prime).

 

One thing I recently found. In 2001 and 2002, Wladimir Klitschko was the # 1 rated heavyweight contender by Ring Magazine. Was their negotiations going on between these two? I know Lennox got setback in 01 cause of rahman, plus the megafight with tyson in 02. However upon beating tyson, Wlad should have got a direct shot at lennox in 03 without having to fight sanders. Wlad was WBO champion at the time. Wlad was rated higher than both rahman and tyson in the first place.

 

Are you telling me that Walcott who was 10-7 in his last 17 bouts, which is not even close to 99% and Charles, who lost to Valdez and Harold Johnson months before boxing Rocky, was better then Patterson. I don't think so.

Tyson was 37-0 before he fought Douglas and 45-1 before he fought Holyfield and beat many top rated contenders while doing so. While Rocky was boxing mostly non-contenders at that time in his career.

 

I like Lewis, BUT like I said, it's hard not to count those 2 KO loses he had, and that is the only reason I rate Sonny above him. He was also losing in his bout with Klitschko before the bout was stopped. I know some top boxing people that don't even rate him in the top 10 and others that think he was the Greatest ever. For me, he is the hardest to rate fairly.

 

Lewis
Marciano
Liston
Tyson
Holmes

 

That is hogwash. Every historian out there claims walcott was a late bloomer who primed in his mid 30s. You use a number to spin the evidence toward your favor, but lets look at that "10-7" deeper.

1. You say Walcott was 10-7 in his last 17 fights, but I could say Walcott was 22-7 in his last 29 fights.


2. Out of Walcott's 10 wins in the time you 'handpicked', 7 came against men who were rated in the Ring Magazine top 10 at the time. 4 of those 10 wins came against Hall of Fame fighters.


3. Out of Walcott's 7 losses, 5 of them came to hall of famers. 4 of those 7 losses walcott would avenge. 1 of those losses came on a very controversial decision against joe Louis(most felt Walctt won).

Walcott was fighting absolute great competition during this time, so it's no wonder he suffered a few losses here and there. Walcott when he won the title was fighting as good as he ever was.


Check this out

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmojnJNIyA8[/ame]

 

1. Whose to say Patterson would have beaten Valdes and Harold Johnson? Floyd's manager, ducked both of those fighters like they were the plague. I think floyds the favorite over both, especially valdes, but someone like harold johnson could have outpointed patterson, and valdes had a punchers chance.

2. Charles- Johnson fight was very close, I thought Charles won myself. Charles was still boxing great all the way through 1954. Charles won 11 out of his last 13 heading into the marciano fight, and looked great knocking out top 10 rated fighters Wallace and Satterfield. Could Patterson have fought so gallantly against Marciano for 15 rounds in june of 1954? Charles really showed up to fight that night, he would have given floyd all he could handle with his sharp counterpunching, and ferocious workrate that night.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4WXv0A6uDw[/ame]
Here is the post title reign Ezzard Charles around the time he fought Marciano. Still pretty damm tough, floyd patterson would have all he could handle with this version.

 

Tyson didnt even train for Douglas outside of training on hookers and booze.

Liston and Tyson are 2 of the most un determind heavyweights you choose to get though Marciano's era unbeating.

Tyson of the Spinks fight WILL beat evey one Marciano's foes about. Though I give Walcott of Marciano I a pretty good shot. But Tyson was a party animal, Once he made it big, he hardly did any training, relieing on his power, hell the guy was mostly a head hunter after that and stop his combo punching.

Tyson would not have made it to 49-0 imo.

Douglas was big sure, but he was far from great. Holyfiled did in 3 rounds to Douglas WHAT Tyson should have done in Japan.

 

Thing is, others may possibly have done that. Rocky really did it. I don´t think you can go by "maybes" or "ould have dones". I go by facts. Rocky did went undefeated. Liston and Tyson did not.

 

I knew Walcott and he even said that he was at his best when he fought Louis. Yes he did get beat by several future HOF boxers, BUT he also got beat by several non-contenders as well. He lost to 11-15 Johnny Allen, who I knew very well too. Then he won his next 12 in a row but most of them weren't contenders. Austin Johnson was only 6-0-2, Denson was 38-23, Dudas was 59-24, Sheppard (hard hitting heavyweight) was 38-22, Allen again 19-17 and Blake 20-10. Yes he did have some good wins too, Baksi, Murray and a split decision win over the Great Jimmy Bivins.

I also like Walcott, we even put up a monument of him in Camden and I again was the MC. He use to call me up for information all the time. Here's a picture of the monument, and his hold family attended.

http://www.trufanboxing.com/origin11.jpg

 

Thanks Henry. You do a lot of great things and congratulations on your latest induction.


When did Walcott tell you he felt his prime was? Do you have any more details on the Johnny Allen fights? Walcott fought him, right after returning from a 4 year layoff. I don't know if Walcott was at his best then. Walcott really started to pick it up by 1946.