Lewis/Holmes/Tyson/Liston/Marciano

Liston should have been the Champion years before he actually did. Again, the only one that could have beaten him was Ali and if there was no Ali, Liston would have been Champion for several years.

I agree that Douglas wasn't Great BUT he was fighting for something that night. Just a few weeks before this bout, his mother passed away. I talked to Buster just a couple of weeks ago at in affair in Newark and he said as much. He never fought as good before or since. Tyson made it to 37-0 before he fought Douglas and 45-1 before he fought Holyfield and he fought much better and bigger opponents.

I just can not see Tyson or Liston losing to any of them.

 

Not even at there WORSE about?

Eddie Ross was about 25-0 when he face Marciano, and Liston would be 4-0 assuming he got by the first 2 over match guys. I relly think a few of these early guys may have gotting by RELLY green Liston or perhaps Tyson if he didnt try out in the games.

 

Thanks!

I got pretty friendly with Jersey Joe Walcott when he was the NJ Boxing Commissioner back in the late 1970's. I knew Allen, because he was a member of the New Jersey Diamond Gloves, which I was and still is the President of, and he lived in Paterson, New Jersey. We called him Johnny Tuck Allen.

Walcott told me that he thought Ali was the best ever.

He told me around the time he fought Louis, that he was at his best.

 

You should not just look at records, you should also look at the records of the guys they fought.

Eddie Ross was 15-0-1, not 25-0, BUT 7 of his opponents didn't even have a bout before facing him. 3 others only had 1 bout and didn't have a single win. Another 2 only had 1 win. That's 12 boxers with only 2 wins total that he fought and one of them was a guy with no bouts that he fought a draw with. The only boxers that had winning records that he fought were both on the downhill slide. One was 4-9 in his last 13 bouts and never fought again after Ross beat him and the other was stopped in his last 3 bouts, and only fought once more.

In Liston's 6th and 7th bout, he fought Johnny Summerlin, who in less then a year and a half later was rated in the Top 10 in the Heavyweight Division. Ross wasn't even close to that.

 

In fairness to Marciano, Ross was the favorite in that fight. Sam Silverman set rocky up to lose, since he despised Al Weill. Silverman was shocked when Rocky knocked out Ross.

Henry,

Ross could have some unknown fights. He was reported in Marcianos biography as 26-0 with 23 knockouts.


I do think Liston's wins over Summerlin and Marshall are more impressive.

 

26 fights, I base it off the the Marciano Bio from the 70's.

 

Yes, that could be true, BUT you can't believe everything you read. I have 1,000's of matches I still have to put in BoxRec myself, BUT he still didn't box anyone that was anywhere near the opponents Summerlin fought.

 

Agreed. Summerlin was a world class fighter.


The bigger question is whether liston deserved the summerlin decisions or not. I have read a couple reports that go both ways.

 

It's still was pretty good for a guy who was boxing in his 6th Pro bout.

 

I also met Joe back in the 70's, he was working as a sales-man -public relations guy for a tire company. Joe told me he felt stronger later from arouind the Louis fight on but lost something after the 1st Marciano fight. he did not feel the desire to train anymore. he said he was in better shape at 60+ than a lot of the guys fighting in the 70's. He said Marciano was a very hard puncher and Louis tricked him but was great he said Marciano and Louis were 2 of the greatest Heavyweights ever.

He told me he thought he could beat Ali and that he had the style to do so, he said Ali was a great fighter but he knew how to beat him.

 

[GV][/GV]

Absolutely. Liston was fed to the wolves, and came out unscathed. I rate Liston in my top 3 heavyweights of all time.

 

Well he told me and a lot of others, that Ali was the best.

 

Former Heavyweight contender now Pro referee and another good friend of mine Randy Neumann, rates Liston #1.

 

Great tread guys

 

Holyfield was a better fighter, beat better opponents, and never quit. His record is just better. Holyfield was fighting quality fighters his whole career, with very few tomato can types in there. He was also a very adaptable, versatile fighter over his career, and had longevity.

Liston's showings against Clay/Ali were pathetic. Tyson got hammered by Buster Douglas, KO'd. Holyfield beat him up badly.