Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by ribtickler68, Feb 4, 2014.
Newman is to blame. He tried to make Bowe into am Ali figure. **** that guy. Bowe KO.
The Bowe I saw blast out Gonzales, I would take over Lewis all day, every day, and with confidence. Funnily enough, I don't think that either Bowe or Rock Newman would've shared that confidence then, before or afterwards.
I don't disagree with the final point, but the pathway is off. To say Bowe, who took several flush shots from Holyfield and didn't go down, has a weaker chin than Lewis, who was sparked out in one punch by guys who couldn't carry Holyfield's bags, is a stretch.
I don't think anyone tried to say Bowe is Chuvalo, but he had a better chin than Lewis. Besides all the low blows he absorbed, he was getting beaten black and blue from chin to shin by Golota, and never hit the mat.
But on that point, Ill say this, and it goes with my original post on this thread. Bowe was already a shell of his prime by the time he faced Golota. Bowe's best is better than Lewis', but Lewis is the greater champion because of his commitment, work ethic and longevity.
I think we pretty much agree, Gabriel. I don't think Bowe's best is better than Lewis' best though. Bowe of Holyfield 1 vs Lewis of Ruddock or Rahman 2 or Golota... hmm. I go with the best version of Lewis. Bowe beat a Holyfield in 92 who had had a nightmare with Bert Cooper, been underwhelming vs Holmes and then fought a daft fight with Bowe. At the time, Evander wasn't considered that great a heavyweight. In fact in a poll in Boxing Illustrated he was the least favoured of the four - Bowe, Lewis, Ruddock and himself - to come out of the mini series on top (Ruddock was most favoured). It's only since then that his stock has grown but that's not the Holyfield that Bowe beat.
With regards to their chins, I think you're right that Evander was a much better fighter than McCall or Rahman but that doesn't mean he hits harder. Bowe was pretty much sparked by one punch from an ailing Holyfield, one whose bags McCall and Rahman may well have been able to carry on that particular night. He was awful.
Lewis was left in a similar condition to Bowe by one punch from McCall who was naturally 20lbs heavier than Evander and was bang up for the fight rather than suffering from Hep B. The referee stopped one fight, he let the other go on but other refs would have allowed Lewis to carry on against McCall, some would have stopped the Bowe-Holyfield fight. I can't say who was hit hardest - Lewis or Bowe - but the physical evidence ie size and state of health gives McCall an advantage over Holyfield on the nights they decked Lewis and Bowe respectively.
And it isn't entirely fair to say Lewis got sparked twice when he fought at the top level for an additional seven years. If Bowe had fought another seven years and faced Lennox' opposition, would his chin have held out? We do know that when he was on his game, Lewis could take the blows of some serious hitters - Bruno, Vitali, Mercer, Mason, Morrison, Tua, Briggs - without too much trouble. We can't say the same about Bowe. His record doesn't back up such an assertion.
This debate will go back and forth and the reason we can't get any closure is down to Bowe, largely. Whatever the rights and wrongs of why they didn't fight each other aside, Bowe's short career and the conspicuous absence of certain of the division's big hitters just don't do enough to support any arguments in his favour imo.
Brilliant post, hat doffed. So many good points, extremely well made. Saved me a lot of time typing!
Good post. A couple of minor points I'd disagree with, like Holyfield's power (underrated) and the Bowe KD being as bad as the Lewis KO.
And other than Vitali, I think what we can say about Lewis when he was on his game is that he was too good of a boxer to have to take those guys' heaviest shots. The whole case for his chin is dubious at best. Besides, I was only using that as one reason I thought Bowe would have an advantage if they fought prime vs prime. Lewis should get credit for being champ for so long with that somewhat shaky weakness.
But on the whole I think we do agree. Lewis was a greater champion,
Nice one Gabriel. Good debating with you. We don't quite agree but I'd happily buy you a pint while I disagree with you (slightly) if this were the real world.
Thanks to you, also, Fast Hands although with a name like yours, I don't suppose I saved you all that much time.
I don't think Lewis would have beaten Bowe worse than Golota, he'd have just knocked him out, ending it easy and early.
Bowe was finished by 96' due to his weight always ballooning in between fights and i don't think he would have been competitive with Lewis around that period, he also struggled with fighters who gave him motion so relatively easy night Lewis, there was a two year window where Bowe could have won by not by 96'.