LHW Toney vs Kovalev, Beterbiev, Stevenson

Stevenson’s resume shots on Jirov’s.

 

This is the issue.

We never saw the best of Toney at LHW.

The best versions we saw of him there were against Griffin. But they weren’t the best versions of him.

The versions of Toney who showed up against Griffin and Thadzi, would never have beaten Jirov.

So if the Griffin versions of him turned up against Kov etc, he could definitely have lost. But if he’d have turned up at 100% it would have been a version that we never saw at the weight.

This is why the debates are so interesting.

You can’t disrespect anybody who would pick Kovalev over him based on what he did in real life at the weight. But then you can’t disrespect anyone who claims that the best version of Toney could have beaten him and the rest of those guys.

 

Okay.

Does that mean Stevenson was a better fighter than Jirov?

Does it mean that he’d have been a more dangerous opponent for Toney?

 

Toney wasn’t terribly impressive anywhere north of 168, to be honest.

His post-Jones career is not all that dissimilar from Duran’s post-Leonard II career. One difference being that Toney never showed any real dominance prior to his fall from grace. He had numerous subpar showings against several different types of fighters. This was a theme at pretty much every weight he fought at all throughout his career. That’s not to say he wasn’t better at 160-68. He was.

To an extent, he maintained his effectiveness throughout the years and different weight classes in a way people hadn’t seen in a long time. That seems to have made up for the fact that he was rarely ever great at any particular stop along the way.

I don’t even think that’s wrong, necessarily. I just don’t rate him as highly head to head as some.

 

For the first time I think I agree with you.

 

Completely possible on both counts.

 

Not in my opinion.

I think Stevenson was a lesser fighter.

He was very dangerous, but a little too reliant on his left hand for me.

 

At least he has quality wins, whereas Jirov has almost nothing.

 

I think Toney at 175 was in reasonable good shape against Duran Williams, Hembrick and Delgado (all wins by KO). It is just that these fights are not known to folks. Check youtube

 

There’s no doubting that Stevenson has more named fighters on his resume, but if you watch them fight, Jirov was very dangerous.

Stevenson was a lot less mobile.

 

He was dangerous against bums and lost when he stepped up.

Stevenson had more one punch power and threw hard counters. He also used his reach.

 

He lost when he stepped up to HW.

He was more dangerous from Toney’s perspective.

Stevenson was too one dimensional for Toney.

 

No. Stevenson was rangy. Jirov was a come forward fighter who lacked head movement. It played into Toney’s hands.

Juan Carlos Gomez was similar to Stevenson and would’ve beaten Toney back then. That fight was never on the cards.

 

Gomez is overrated.Jirov would have beaten him

 

I don't think so. He practically hadn't lost a round yet when he fought Vitali, other than getting caught cold once.