Librado Andrade was robbed; watch the video to convince yourselves!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Decebal, Oct 25, 2008.


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  1. Call me Trinity

    Call me Trinity The original strapon Full Member

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    Wouldn't that defeet the can't be saved rule ? I'm not trying to be a smartass, but in you opinion the bell should have sounded while Bute were on the floor then ?
     
    Call me Trinity, Oct 25, 2008
    Call me Trinity, Oct 25, 2008
    #76
  2. kotjinx

    kotjinx Robotic White Boy Full Member

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    Aug 12, 2007
    I think you're wrong. Here's why (this is from a different thread) based on the official IBF bout rules (I will post a link to these below):


    So I think this is pretty clear.

    The ref had to count to 8 (rule number 2).

    The ref had the right to stop counting if Andrade was not in his corner (rule number 4).

    Assuming Bute went down after 2:52 (I don't know when that exactly happened) the fight should have ended after the count of 8 if Bute's hands were clear of the floor.

    Based on the 'Referee section' the ref didn't have to end it if Bute was wobbly, because he could have decided that, given the amount of time left, continuing would not subject him to serious injury.

    If you believe that - then there was no robbery.

    Ok - a lot of things were at the refs discretion, but ultimately he was right. Bute was not seriously injured after he allowed the fight to continue.

    The only way you can argue this was a robbery is to invoke rule number 1 and claim that Bute was 'hanging helplessly over the ropes as a result of a legal blow'. While I have some sympathy for this, I think it is difficult to claim he was 'hanging helplessly' - he did have his hands off the ropes once the ref got to 8...
     
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    #77
  3. kotjinx

    kotjinx Robotic White Boy Full Member

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    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    #78
  4. Club Fighter

    Club Fighter Boxing Addict banned

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    Go Back To Your Corner!!!
     
    Club Fighter, Oct 25, 2008
    Club Fighter, Oct 25, 2008
    #79
  5. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    OK...then let me correct my post. The bell rang at the appropraite time according to the rules. In terms of the count that was administered, it was still by the book (it was discontinued at the moment the official saw Andrade leave the corner). Bute was getting to his feet when that was occuring, and did raise his hands to signify a willingness to carry on. As soon as that happened, the bell rang, and the fight was over.

    Just a matter of the timing of the kd, and that occurred in the last five seconds of the contest. No robbery, I think, in terms of the count...but whether Andrade should have been awarded the fight due to stoppage in the moments that preceded it is another matter that warrants discussion.
     
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    Drew101, Oct 25, 2008
    #80
  6. kotjinx

    kotjinx Robotic White Boy Full Member

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    I'm with you. That's at the ref's discretion though - and ultimately the only way to determine whether he was right or not is to check the injuries that Bute sustained because of the fight not being stopped earlier. Based on that, the call was correct - I'd argue.

    Though if he was floating around like that with more rounds to go, the right call would have been to end it immediately. If that makes sense... ;-)
     
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    kotjinx, Oct 25, 2008
    #81
  7. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Mar 10, 2007
    Don't be so hard on yourself, Decebal.

    It is understandable that you should feel confused and emotional, under these circumstances.

    Here is what I think, if you care to read my opinion:

    In my opinion, the hometown referee was biased. He let Bute clinch too much when it was to his advantage to kill the inside fight, and broke up the clinches when Andrade was roughing Bute up in the clinch. The referee also stopped the fight and gave warnings precisely when he thought Bute needed some help. He even let Bute get away with lifting Andrade's leg on the inside, to get him off-balance. Bute should have had at least one point deducted for clinching, I though. Then, there was the "long count" in the final round. It's hard to believe the referee didn't try to buy Bute some precious extra seconds.

    Leaving the "long count" to one side for one second, during the last round, the referee stepped in every time Andrade was on the point of knocking Bute down, with Bute holding on for dear life. If the referee had been biased up to this point, at this stage, it could be argued that he prevented Andrade from winning the fight.

    Towards the end of the round, Bute was out on his feet, in no position to defend himself, with Andrade going in for the kill. At this stage, the referee could have stopped the fight at any time. He was helping Bute again, but not preventing Andrade from winning, at this stage. The referee gave Bute the benefit of the doubt, allowing him to get knocked down.

    Now, Bute was knocked down with 2 seconds left on the clock. Andrade was sent to the neutral corner. Bute was up on his feet within 6 seconds of the knockdown, so 4 seconds after the end of the fight.

    You cannot be saved by the bell, and Bute certainly wasn't. He had to get up within a count of 8, after the knockdown, in order not to be called knocked out. Bute did better than that; he got up within 6 seconds. What the referee should have done then was to continue giving Bute a standing 8 count, before demanding that he take a step forward, to see whether he could stand up on his own two feet without falling down. If he couldn't, the referee should have called it a TKO. If he could, he should have gone to the scorecards.

    The problem was that the referee didn't know that the round was over because the timekeeper had not signalled the end of the round with the bell. It seems the timekeeper made a mistake and went against the rules by stopping the clock when Bute went down, and restarted it when the referee restarted the fight. So, the referee, not knowing that the round was over, restarted the fight. The timekeeper waited another two seconds and rang the bell.

    In conclusion, the reason for the controversy is a mistake made not by the referee, but by the timekeeper.

    Would Bute have managed to take a step forward and keep his balance? We will never know. A rematch will not answer the question, but has to happen under these circumstances.

    If you want to blame someone, blame the referee for giving Bute all the home-town advantages possible and blame the timekeeper for almost costing Bute a legitimate win.

    So, to draw the line: With help from the referee, Bute made it into the last seconds of the fight, and beat the count fair and sqare...easily. The timekeeper was responsible for the referee's irregular actions from that point on. It was a controversial ending all-right!
     
    Decebal, Oct 25, 2008
    Decebal, Oct 25, 2008
    #82
  8. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That was like 20 seconds, make you wish fights were 15 rounds.
     
    Minotauro, Oct 25, 2008
    Minotauro, Oct 25, 2008
    #83
  9. BoppaZoo

    BoppaZoo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Man thats the first time ive seen the footage.

    And i can officially say that when the Ref was at 8 seconds i had already got to 12 seconds.

    That was the slowest count ove ever seen.
     
    BoppaZoo, Oct 25, 2008
    BoppaZoo, Oct 25, 2008
    #84
  10. CArealm

    CArealm Active Member Full Member

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    even with extended time Bute did not beat the count because he was leaning on the ropes, when that happens the fight is waved off. even when he's walking to his corner the stupid ref helps him cus his wobbly. Andrade was definitely robbed.
     
    CArealm, Oct 25, 2008
    CArealm, Oct 25, 2008
    #85
  11. Archie_Moore

    Archie_Moore ALL TIME KO KING Full Member

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    But it wasn't the 12th round... Big difference.

    Who got KTFO in that fight again? Oh yea it was Taylor

    Pavlik Survived and came back to win BIG. Think Bute would have come back from that.. lol Pavlik was nearly as bad as Bute... Not even close.
     
    Archie_Moore, Oct 25, 2008
    Archie_Moore, Oct 25, 2008
    #86
  12. JLightningFys

    JLightningFys Member Full Member

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    The ref ain't shyt for that one. Lol, he couldn't even hold his own weight when he got up. The ref never said walk to me or anything. That fight should've been stopped way before the knockdown. I smell a rematch!!!!
     
    JLightningFys, Oct 25, 2008
    JLightningFys, Oct 25, 2008
    #87
  13. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Yeah,Bute's fight was over after he beat the count
     
    catasyou, Oct 25, 2008
    catasyou, Oct 25, 2008
    #88
  14. Broxi

    Broxi Stand With Ukraine Full Member

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    You're uhh... Canadian?


    Bute was on his feet by 8 but was still on ***** street, had the bell already gone?

    Terrible officiating.
     
    Broxi, Oct 25, 2008
    Broxi, Oct 25, 2008
    #89
  15. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

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    That's the idiot timekeeper's fault
     
    catasyou, Oct 25, 2008
    catasyou, Oct 25, 2008
    #90
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