Lil Arthur vs. the Boston Strong Boy. Johnson vs Sullivan

Let us not forget that there is one common opponent in McCormack, which an ancient out of retirement comebacking Sullivan did a lot better against in many eyes.

It is hard to judge how this would have gone down. Johnson definitely would need to be at his best, Sullivan also definitely had the power to Ko Johnson if he caught him.

 

Lets say it like it was.

Sullivan was an ancient 270lb wreck, who had nothing left but his power.

If you think he was just a brawler, you would have to conclude that he hit harder than Earnie Shavers, and was naturaly lucky!

 

This debate is somewhat senseless of course since there is no surviving footage of Sullivan. But anyone having done their research on Sullivan would know he was a physical freak, fast as lightning and inhumanly strong. Would he have to upgrade his technique to the rules of 20 or 30 years later? Sure. But he possessed physical assets and style that not even McVea, his nearest physical approximation, had.

No one ever dominated their era in this division as did Sullivan.

 

Here are some testimonies about Sullivan’s style from people who saw him fight:

“He can strike out with either right or left and knock a man down with as much ease and grace as an accomplished lady can gently and languidly open an opera fan”

National Police Gazette

“The superiority of Sullivan lies in his extraordinary nervous force and altogether incomparable skill as a boxer. In what does this extraordinary skill consist? In hitting as straight and almost as rapid as light, in the variety and rediness of his blows, in standing firmly on his feet and driving his whole weight and nervous force at the end of his fist- a very rare and high quality in a boxer, in movements as quick and purposeful as the leap of a lion. He can duck lower than any featherweight boxer in America”.

John Boyle O’Reiley

“I have seldom seen a man who advances the truth which is that Sullivan is as clever as any man. His unquestioned ability as being the hardest hitter ever seen has caused overlooking of the fact that his blow is always planted where it will do the most good either on the jaw or jugular. The truth is that Sullivan is a careful scientific fighter”.

Chicago Herald

“Sullivan showed one point of his science by quick movements of his head completely eluding on such occasions the heavy blows which were aimed by McDonald”

Denver Tribune Republican

“One thing is for certain and that is that neither Mace or Sayers ever encountered so hard or so quick a hitter as in John L Sullivan. It was this writers fortune to see the fight between Heenan and Morrissey and had Sullivan been on the boards that day it is my opinion that he could have whipped them both one after the other. Those who think that he is not a thoroughly scienced man are mistaken. He has a far better knowledge of the fistic art than either Heenan or Morrissey possessed. He is stronger than either and unquestionably he is the hardest hitter known to the records of the ring”.

National Police Gazette

 

Would Sullivan stack up with Johnson's style? Jim Corbett made him miss enough to make me think Sullivan doesn't stack up. But then again if Ketchel could drop him Sullivan would KO him. But then again people thought the much larger Jeffries would have also not sure if Jeff was stronger, according to all sources he was faster in his prime.

 

I think it is fair to say that the Sullivan who fought Corbett does not beat a prime version of Jack Johnson. I dont think anyone could argue against that.

 

I'm quite prepared to accept these testimonials as honest appraisals of their time but you have to take them into context and realise with whom Sullivan was being compared?

Past LPR battlers who fought on turf where hip throws, and cross buttocks were all part of the game.

McDonald is mentioned in these reports. Who was he? He is not in Sullivan's resume was he a sparring partner? A voulnteer out of the crowd? Eluding his punches may not mean too much, in scientific terms.

 

The point to my question/answer was exacyly what you have stated. Johnsons style is totally different than the toe the line rough and tumble style John L fought in. I dont see him being able to deal with the turn of the century prime version of Johnson's style.

 

Four heavyweight champions rated Choynski as the hardest puncher they met.
It's possible they knew what they were talking about.

Will you produce evidence of this black eye in a primary news report, because it is not mentioned in any books on Johnson?


The KD I think was faked with Johnson beginning to fall from a shot that goes behind his head.
Newspapapers of the time commented on "the mysterious punch".

Harry B. Smith wrote, Oct 17th San Francisco Chronicle, “That the Negro could have finished the fight much earlier was apparent to those at ringside.” Nevertheless both men kept to their pack until the 12th round. Ketchel unleashed a hard right that knocked down Johnson for a short count. Smith stated, “To the writer and 90 percent of those who were in a position to follow closely it appeared that the punch seemed to glance around the back of Johnson’s head…and there was genuine surprise when Johnson went down"


Ketchel got an almighty thrashing from a Johnson who was cruising ,and who once picked him up after dropping him .
Ketchel was cut and blood smeared as early as the 2nd rd ,and finished the fight minus some teeth . It took him quite a time to recuperate from the hiding he received.

How can the defence of a man who was never stopped in his prime ,and not ko'd for 15 years be, "overated"?

N B. Sullivan was dropped by 155lbs Mitchell.

 

Edit: delete

 

Again, the myth that Sullivan was a bareknuckle specialist.

He simply wasn't.