Lil Arthur vs. the Boston Strong Boy. Johnson vs Sullivan

Sullivan would certainly have wanted the fight to be with gloves.

 

No one is alive that saw Corbett, or Johnson fight ,yet no one has indulged in the revisionism of saying they were crude brawlers.

Why would opinion change about Sullivan:huh

 

Maybe because film exists of Corbett and Johnson?

 

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Possibly,but who has seen Young Griffo or Peter Jackson ? No one thinks of them as crude.

I don't mean to imply Sullivan was a crude brawler , but neither do I think he was a scientific boxer.

 

Stylistically, which former heavyweight champion do you think Sullivan resembles the most in style?

I imagine him as probably most similar to Tyson. I think the one out Tyson (less combintations) of later years (say from about Bruno to Holyfield) would be very close to Sullivan in style. Stylistically though he probably threw straighter more than he hooked or uppercutted, meaning he fought more at range. Timing and power wise though, i think his speed would have matched that of the young Tyson, as would his power. Who knows, it may have even exceeded young Tyson.

Defensively, i dont think he was as tight as a young Tyson, but i do imagine similar reflexes and ducking/dodging ability.

Do you think that this better describes sullivans style, or do you think others would be closer linked. Perhaps he was more like young foreman with speed? or someone else.

 

We cannot say with any certainty how he looked can we? I would imagine he'd be fast into range and throwing straighter punches than Foreman.I doubt he had much semblance of a guard,his defence was probably pretty porous.
I think it was a case of, the best defence is a great offense.
He fought in an upright stance [,or so I've read,] so I don't see the Tyson analogy really.

I see him as a bigger, more contained Lew Jenkins, or Stanley Ketchel ,fast and ever on the attack.
Laugh , but he may have been a big Tommy Burns prototype, quick to get in distance and looking to unload that right whenever an opening presented itself.

 

From all I've read which is a ton, Sullivan was fast with his hands, a monster puncher, had a terrific chin, was physically naturally very strong and when in shape wonderful stamina .. he was a straight standing, fast starting slugger … it appears he was somewhat controlled, not a wild man by any sorts but far more a slugger than a swarmer … he is reported to rely on a right hook , a straight right and a right hook to the back as favorite weapons but some reports list him using a left to some degree as well … if he ever threw a jab is anyone's guess … Sullivan was the primary hinge from barekuckle to gloved fighting .. he clearly preferred gloves and the round system as it clearly favored him from protecting his hands to allowing for easier KO's but he himself was no man of boxing science as he himself admitted in his own later analysis between himself and Jeffries writing " Jeffries became so much more advanced a bout between the two of them would not have lasted long." …

You really cannot expect Sullivan, with natural ability alone, to compete with Jack Johnson in a M of Q contest dictated by M of Q rules any more than you can have a boxer fight an MMA fighter under MMA rules … these are all different sports … that being said I have always believed that the 1882 version of Sullivan, his physical prime, was a man loaded with talent that could have been molded into a superior M of Q fighter highly competitive with close to anyone in the cruiser division if he had the full training and experience .. putting aside his age and inactivity, the Corbett fight showed Sullivan had absolutely noting to deal w Corbetts movement, jab and style from round one on .. he was of a different era.

 

Some peopledrew comparisons between his style and that of Terry McGovern. That certainly seems plausible.

 

By all accounts he was as agressive as McGovern.

His self confidence must have been through the roof,and the public just loved his swaggering braggodocio.

 

His confidence and his legendary " I can take any man in the house " swagger are among the key components of what made him iconic in his own age.

 

The consensus of contemporary observers seems to be that Sullivan fought leaning forward with his weigh resting on his front foot. It seems that he threw straight punches from the shoulder and could really get his body behind the punches like Rocky Marciano. He seems to have used his crouch defensively and to have ducked low to avoid punishment. Of course this still leaves us alot of room for interpretation about what kind of fighter he actualy was.

“The secret of the champions prowess is apparent. He carries his strongly muscled shoulders forward. The consequence is that when he delivers a blow he doesn’t have to bring the upper part of his body forward in the delivery. The arm straightens out and the blow is with a suddenness which seems paralysing to the spectators, to say nothing of the man in front of him. He stands with one foot well behind and his body pressing forward”.

St Louis paper quoted by Adam Pollack

“The superiority of Sullivan lies in his extraordinary nervous force and altogether incomparable skill as a boxer. In what does this extraordinary skill consist? In hitting as straight and almost as rapid as light, in the variety and readiness of his blows, in standing firmly on his feet and driving his whole weight and nervous force at the end of his fist- a very rare and high quality in a boxer, in movements as quick and purposeful as the leap of a lion. He can duck lower than any featherweight boxer in America”.

John Boyle O’Reiley

Although Sullivan planted his feet and put most of his body weight behind his blows he seems to have also employed leaps to close distance or fire a punch over an opponents guard:

“Here again Sullivan showed the terrific force with which he delivers his blows jumping forward on his right leg and at the same time apparently and throwing the weight of his whole massive body onto his arms. The movement is executed with lightning like rapidity and it certainly seems that no man can stand up to it”.

San Francisco Chronicle

Sullivan’s style of fighting differed from that of any other pugilist that has entered the ring of late years. He is a rusher, and it is this quality and his tremendous hitting powers that really make him a great pugilist. Beside he is a skilful wrestler and a good infighter, quick to dodge and always on the alert for any opening an opponent may leave.

Times Democrat

 

I will throw in a few quotes from Sullivan himself, to give an idea about his thought process. He seems to have been an intelligent fighter, and a good ring general.

“The first thing a professor will teach a pupil is to stand in position. He will teach him how to turn his toes out spread his feet so many inches apart, and will try to convince the young man that this position is the only correct one in the world. Now I consider that this is all simple rot. My advice is to stand in whatever way is best suited for your purpose-whichever way you can hit your opponent the straights hardest blow and avoid a return by getting away quickly”.

“The essentials of a good fighter are pluck skill endurance and a good head on his shoulders. A man fights with his head almost as much as he does with his fists. He must know where to send his blows so that they will do the most good. He must economise his strength and not score a hit just for the sake of scoring it. I endeavour to hit my man above the heart or under the chin or behind the ear. A man wears out pretty soon if one can keep hammering away at the region of the heart, a blow behind the ear will knock a man out quicker than a hundred on the cheek or any other portion of the face”.

“Learn to strike straight and clean, swinging blows nearly always leave you open for your opponent. It is well to do your leading with the left reserving the right for any good openings. Wherever you hit your man with one hand let the other fist land in the same spot if possible”.

“Always watch your opponent. Just as soon as you see him about to lead shoot your left into his face. The force of him coming towards you will increase the blow considerably”.