Lineal Rankings System

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Boilermaker, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror booted Full Member

    Dec 31, 2009
    I had no idea Evangelista was riding so high at that time, but as the results show, he beat the right guy to deservedly earn that placing.

    Hughroy Currie was British and beat Banjo for the British heavyweight title. Both top ten rated guys were regarded as too inferior for (#33 ranked) Frank Bruno to bother with at that time. He was supposedly aiming higher!!

    Those guys missed out on big paydays.
  2. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    To be honest, there doesnt seem to be anywhere near the depth of competition that there was in the 60s and earlier. It seems that young contenders have started to get sold on the idea of long undefeated streaks as opposed to fighting tough compeition as a way to getting better. It is harder to break into the top 10 because the top 10 rarely lose any fights, but on the flip side, a lot of their competition is actually untested.

    What did you think of Larry's reign. It surprised me a little just how poor it was in comparison to Ali, Louis and Johnson, although obviously the alpha organisations are the main cause of this. It will be intersting to see how Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield and Klitchsko appear. Pretty soon, i think i will but together a few tables of things like years spent in rankings, no of contenders beaten etc. This should give some emotionless all time rankings which i think would be interesting.

    And another record which i was thinking about. Based on these rankings, is Michael Spinks's win the greatest upset in boxing history? I cant remember a champion losing the title to someone who was unranked at the time of challenging. Ali, Braddock, Leon Spinks, Tunney etc were all ranked from what i remember. it is strange that this is never listed as one of the great upsets. An undefeated champion going for the record vs an unranked figher debuting in the division.
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror booted Full Member

    Dec 31, 2009
    I think Larry was a good champion but the rival championships really hurt the order that he got a challenger into the ring. The first thing that hurt him the most was not getting Gerrie Coetzee in 1979. In another era that would have been automatic since together Larry and Coetzee had the best wins that year. The public interest automatically should have forced that fight. But the WBA got in the way of it and their guy that beat Coetzee went ahead of Larry in a year where Holmes had better wins. Snipes, Weaver, Witherspoon and Bonecrusher all became higher rated after Larry beat them. So the order really effects him. I can’t help thinking without governing bodies getting in the way- the right fights would have happened in the right order. But Then of course, he still loses his title to an unranked guy.

    I think it probably should be. He skipped a division to do it. I think it came at a time in his career where he only had a couple of fights left in him. I am not sure Spinks really wanted to continue at heavyweight. Although I am suspicious of the methods he used to become a heavyweight I am coming to recognise the magnitude of this achievement.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  4. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 Michael Spinks - W Holmes Tangsted
    2 Larry Holmes - L Spinks
    3 Mike Tyson - W Zouski, Green, Tillis, Frazier, Ribalta, Ratliffe, Berbick & Others
    4 Trevor Berbick - W Thomas Perkins L Tyson
    5 Pinklon Thomas - W Maldanoa Hosea L Berbick
    6 James Smith - W Weaver Ferguson Bey Witherspoon L Frazier (pre rank)
    7 Tim Witherspoon - W Tubbs Bruno L Smith
    8 Trevor Berbick W Bey Green
    9 Joe Bugner - W Bey Tillis
    10 David Bey - L Smith Bugner
    11 Tony Tubbs - L Witherspoon
    12 James Douglas- W Page Jaco Collier
    13 Larry Alexander - W Trimm Ward Curry Wills
    14 Mark Wills - W Page Hadley L Alexander Collier (pre rank)
    15 Greg page - W Banjo Halstead L Douglas Wills
    16 Marvis Frazier - W Tillis Ribalta
    17 Horace Notice - Jones, Currie Jameson
    18 Melvin Epps - W Castro Currie L Rodrigues Castro & others (Pre rank)
    19 Hughroy Currie W McCrory L Notice Epps
    20 Funso Banjo - L Page
    21 Stefan Tangsted - W Evangelista Westgarth L Spinks
    22 Patrick Lamumba - W Santemore Evangelista
    23 Alfredo Evangelista - W Vega Miller L Tangsted Lamumba
    24 Bobby Czsy - W Kacar Sears
    25 Slobodan Kacar - L Czsyz
    26 Ricky Parkey - w Hernandez Murphy
    27 Tyrell Biggs - W Tillis Sims Snipes & Others
    28 Renaldo Snipes - W Long L Biggs
    29 Frank Bruno - W Coetzee L Witherspoon
    30 Gerry Coetzee - L Bruno
    31 Michael Dokes -No Fights
    32 Donovan Ruddock - W Jones Westgarth Houck Weaver
    33 Mike Weaver - W Williams L Smith Ruddock
    34 Carlos DeLeon - W Benton Greer
    35 Bernard Benton - W L De Leon
    36 Alfonzo Ratliffe - W Ross L Tyson

    Mike Tyson's rise through the rank was quick and impressive. .

    I have to say they top 10 were active and in good form, it seems.

    Horrace Notice may be an underated one. Only in the top 20, but undefeated throughout his career.

    Melvin Epps lost most of his fights, but he did win the one that mattered most, putting him into the top 20.

    I am Pretty Sure Patrick Lamumba is the first Kenyan to enter the rankings.

    Despite what seems like a really solid group of heavyweights, it is interesting that the light heavys and cruisers are still forcing their way into the rankings.
    choklab likes this.
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror booted Full Member

    Dec 31, 2009
    Wow, Frank Bruno is still much lower than I imagined.

    These rankings show that the IBF vacant title fight of Tony Tucker and Buster Douglas must be between the lowest ranked pairing of heavyweights for an alphabet belt. How on Earth they selected those two to represent the best in the “world”.
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  6. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    What stuns me most about Bruno, is that when he fights Bugner, it is Bugner (the Comebacking "Aussie Joe" version) who actually had the higher ranking. I remember that Joe was angling for a Tyson title fight, and i remember not thinking it a realistic goal which it ultimately wasnt. But it also wasnt as unlikely (it seems) as i had thought at the time.
    choklab likes this.
  7. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 Michael Spinks - W Cooney
    2 Larry Holmes - No Fights
    3 Mike Tyson - W Smith Thomas Tucker Biggs.
    4 Trevor Berbick - W Terry Boyd Evans
    5 Pinklon Thomas - W Sutton L Thomas
    6 Adilson Rodriguez - W Rodriguez Boyd Jamieson Smith Gross Evangelista
    7 James Smith - L Tyson Rodrigues
    8 Tim Witherspoon - W Wills Williams
    9 Frank Bruno - W Tillis Gardner Gross Bugner
    10 Joe Bugner - W Page L Bruno
    11 Tyrell Biggs - W Bey Boyd L Tyson
    12 Mike Weaver - W Jaco Pritchard Du Plooy
    13 Johnny Du Plooy - W Porter Bey Tillis Booze Knoetzee Parker L Weaver
    14 David Bey - L Biggs DuPlooy
    15 Tony Tubbs -W Jameson Halstead Gonzalez
    16 Tony Tucker - W Douglas L Tyson
    17 James Douglas- W Long L Tucker
    18 Orlin Norris - W Alexander Barbier & Others
    19 Larry Alexander - L Norris
    20 Mike White - W Billups Bond Collier Holman
    21 Dee Collier - w Wills L White
    22 Mark Wills - L Collier Witherspoon
    23 Greg page - W Broad L Bugner
    24 Marvis Frazier - W Fischer Evans
    25 Horace Notice - W Kilamanjarro Garside Liston Waters
    26 Renaldo Snipes - W Epps Scott Anderson
    27 Melvin Epps - L Snipes
    28 Hughroy Currie W Jacobs Malcolm Quarless
    29 James Broad - W Lamumba L (pre rank) Damiani Page
    30 Patrick Lamumba - W Ratliffe L Broad

    Spinks defeated Holmes, of course, which was a great win, but I don’t think his record seems to stack up with other light heavy types (in the heavy division) such as Tunney, Braddock, Burns, Charles, Fitzsimmons, possibly even Moorer although that remains to be seen. Other non champions like Archie Moore may also have better records as well.

    Mike Tyson is only third, but his "pre lineal title" run is as good as anyone's. It really is astonishing to think that in between a multimillion dollar unification bout, he took a warm up against the no 5 ranked fighter. As a number 1 contender (or in this case technically no 2 contender although Larry had formally retired, this is one of a very few number of times, where you could legitimately consider someone other than the world champion as a the best fighter in the world.

    James Bonecrusher Smith certainly had a bad year. Followed his world title loss to Tyson with a loss to Rodrigues and a draw with Rouse. Rodrigues seems to have had a good year. I cant remember him being highly rated but his record looks decent. Interestingly when he fought Felipe Rodrigues, it was Rodrigues vs Rodrigues. Was this a sibling rivalry?

    Johnny Du Plooy was actually putting together a good run. It is a shame he slipped up against Mike Weaver, who was underated at the time.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror booted Full Member

    Dec 31, 2009
    Great work once again. Rodriguez beating Smith was a good win, though it didn’t do him much good.

    I’ve just noticed Berbick is listed twice. #4 and #9. Tucker beat #17 Douglas but doesn’t appear.
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror booted Full Member

    Dec 31, 2009
    Bugner had an excellent run. He was a serious contender, these days he would not even be considered old.
  10. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    Thanks, that should be fixed now. Tucker had dropped out of the rankings and returned. AS you said earlier his IBF (i think it was) belt really was a joke of belt with Douglas fighting Tucker. Both fighters would have struggled to be top 10 fighters at the time. Although ironically, both went on to prove themselves as pretty good fighters.
    choklab likes this.
  11. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    At the time, he looked so slow compared to Mike. And the year off (as it was with Larry, later on) was a big thing. Now it seems to be par for the course for fighters to fight only every year or two
    choklab likes this.
  12. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 Mike Tyson - W holmes Tubbs Spinks
    2 Michael Spinks - L Tyson
    3 Larry Holmes - L Tyson
    4 Carl Williams - W Berbick Frazie Rouse
    5 Trevor Berbick - W Davis L Williams
    6 Evander Holyfield - W DeLeon Tillis Thomas
    7 Pinklon Thomas - L Holyfiedl
    6 Adilson Rodriguez - W Scaff Lee Currie Garside Cambioso
    7 James Smith - D Rouse
    8 Tim Witherspoon - W Villegas
    9 Frank Bruno - No Fights
    10 Francesco Damiani - W Biggs Gaymon Emman Jassmen
    11 Tyrell Biggs - L Damiani
    12 Renaldo Snipes - w Armstrong Duplooy Washington L Norris (pre rank)
    13 Johnny DuPlooy W Weaver Broad L Snipes D Pritchard
    14 Mike Weaver - L Du Plooy
    15 Tony Tubbs -L Tyson
    16 Tony Tucker - No Fights
    17 James Douglas- Wdavis Halstead Williams
    18 Orlin Norris - W Clark Snipes Stokes Bond Ferguson
    19 Donovan Ruddock - W Alexander Lacusta Gross Broad
    20 Larry Alexander - L Ruddock Witherspoon
    21 Levi Billups - Slaughter Holman Martin Stockton Hughes White
    22 Mark Wills - W Rawls White
    23 Mike White - W Collier Santemore Richardson L Billups Wills
    24 Dee Collier - L White W Garcia
    25 Greg page - No Fights
    26 Marvis Frazier - W Brown
    27 Horace Notice - W Currie
    28 Arthel Lawhorn W Muhammed L Swindell (Pre rank)
    29 Eddie Mustafa Muhammed - W Davidson Epps L Lawthorn
    30 Melvin Epps - L Mustafa Muhammed
    31 Hughroy Currie W Quarless L Notice Rodrigues
    32 James Broad - L DuPlooy Ruddock
    33 Patrick Lamumba - W Lampkin

    Tyson has wins over 7 of the top 10 and will KO the 8th in one round. He will also go on to face Evander Holyfield after his break. He reign is short but as dominant as anyones. From memory he beat more top 10 contenders than Dempsey, Marciano or any of the other champs with a short but dominant reign. Only the likes of Johnson, Ali and Louis really established the same level of dominance and all three were much longer reigns to do it. Tyson had also beaten 3 of the top 20 and would Soon KO a 4th in Razor Ruddock. Interestingly the 5th fighter he would fight, Buster Douglas would knock him out.

    Trevor Berbick has held his position surprisingly well.

    Spinks and Holmes should bow out at the end of this year, both in the top 10 which is always a good result.

    A little unusual that Bruno had the year off. From memory it just wasn’t worth the risk of a loss when you were in line for a big money title fight with Tyson.

    Its interesting that Witherspoon was always seen as the man tyson "ducked". Technically Rodrigues was rated higher at the current point in time.

    Eddie Mustapha Muhammed snuck into theto30 5 in his short comeback that would only last 3 fights for the year.
  13. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    I wish Horace Notice had a longer career. I enjoyed all his fights.
    choklab likes this.
  14. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 Mike Tyson - W Bruno Williams
    2 Carl Williams - L Tyson
    3 James Douglas - W Berbick McCall
    4 Trevor Berbick - L Douglas
    5 Evander Holyfield - W Dokes Rodrigues Stewart
    6 Pinklon Thomas - No fights
    7 Adilson Rodriguez - W Tillis Rouse Masseroni L Holyfield
    8 Donovan Ruddock - W SMith
    9 James Smith - W Jones McGee Rouse L Ruddock
    10 Tim Witherspoon - W Alexander Eklund
    11 Frank Bruno - L Tyson
    12 Francesco Damiani - W W Duplooy Neto
    13 Gary Mason - Currie Armstrong Harding Biggs Wills
    14 Tyrell Biggs - L Mason W Crabtree
    15 Renaldo Snipes - w Almeida Epps Adams
    16 Johnny DuPlooy W Rouse L Damiani
    17 Mike Weaver - L Crabtree Washington Brown
    18 Tony Tubbs -W Evans Richardson Mijangos ND Norris
    19 Tony Tucker - W Homsey
    20 Orlin Norris - W Page Collier ND Tubbs
    21 Larry Alexander - L Witherspoon
    22 Michael Dokes - W Crabtree Washington Watson L Holyfield
    23 Lionel Washington - W Billups L Weaver Dokes
    24 Levi Billups - L Washington
    25 Mark Wills - W Williams L Mason
    26 Pierre Coetzer - White Pritchard Greer Hitz
    27 Mike White - L Coetzer
    28 Dee Collier - W Crabtree Masters L Norris
    29 Greg page - W Murney Terrell Woolard L Norris
    30 Alex Stewart - W Jaco Lawhorn Johnson Montes Armstrong L Holyfield
    31 Ray Mercer W Lawhorn Ocassio Richardson & Others
    32 Arthel Lawhorn W Tillis L Mercer Stewart
    33 Lennox Lewis W Malcolm Johnson Gerrard Gardner Epps
    34 Melvin Epps - L Snipes Liwis
    35 Derek Williams - W Quarless Evans Currie L Wills
    36 Hughroy Currie L Mason Williams
    37 James Broad - L DuPlooy Ruddock
    38 Glen Mcrory - W Mormino Makathini Lamumba
    39 Patrick Lamumba - W De Assa L McRory

    Tyson had still beaten 5 of the top 10 But number 3, 5 and 33 will eventually give him troubles.

    Spinks and Holmes retire as 2 and 3.

    James "Buster" Douglas clearly deserved a shot and wasn’t as big an upset as thought at the time. Interesting that Douglas had just beaten future Lennox Lewis Conquerer oliver McCall, on points. Imagine if results had gone another way and it had been McCall and not Douglas who got the shot at Tyson and beat him. Not a completely ridiculous possibility.

    I have to say the top 20 looks pretty accurate. Not sure what that shows. But for a generation many call the lost generation, most of the big guns seemed to be in the picture. The highly rated 90s era is about to start. It will be interesting to see if they are more successful over the 80s fighters than the 70s fighters were against the 60s fighters.
    choklab likes this.
  15. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 Evander Holyfield - McDonagh Douglas
    2 James Douglas - W Tyson L Holyfield
    3 Mike Tyson - W Stewart Tillman L Douglas
    4 Carl Williams - W Bowen
    5 Trevor Berbick - Sims Crabtree
    6 Pinklon Thomas - No fights
    7 George Foreman - W Cooney Jameson Rodriques Lacusta Anderson
    8 Adilson Rodriguez - L Foreman
    9 Donovan Ruddock - W Dokes Odum Rouse
    10 James Smith - W Almeida Weaver
    11 Tim Witherspoon - W Sims Gorrell Ribalta
    12 Frank Bruno - No Fights
    13 Francesco Damiani - W Morrison Martin
    14 Gary Mason - W Martin Pritchard
    15 Tyrell Biggs -W Ocasio Kellar Marin
    16 Renaldo Snipes - w Howe
    17 Pierre Coetzer - W Martin Powell Duplooy Williamson Odum
    17 Johnny DuPlooy W Murphy Tomashek L Coetzer
    18 Mike Weaver -W Burgess L Smith
    19 Tony Tubbs -W Cohen Carter
    20 Tony Tucker - W Jones Evans Rouse
    21 Ray Mercer - W Watson odum washington Cooper
    22 Riddick Bowe - W Robinson Golay Gonzalez Tucker Thomas Cooper Morrison
    23 Bert Cooper - W Norris L Mercer Bowe
    24 Orlin Norris - W Wofford Gorrell Hearns McCall Willis L Cooper
    25 Michael Dokes - W Dacola L Ruddock
    26 Lionel Washington - Wdavis L Mercer
    27 Levi Billups - W Johnson
    28 Mark Wills - W Page
    29 Mike White - No Fights
    30 Greg page - W Fleming L Wills
    31 Alex Stewart - W Young Howe L Tyson
    32 Lennox Lewis W Quarless jones simuwelu Dascola Murphy Ocasio Acey Chanet
    33 Ed Mack - W Rivers Taylor L Cole (pre rank) D Jackson
    34 Leon Taylor W Collins Epps Cole L Mack
    35 Melvin Epps - L Taylor
    36 Jean Maurice Chanet - W Williams L Lewis
    37 Derek Williams - L Chanet
    38 Jeff Lampkin - W Mccrory Makathini
    39 Glen Mcrory - L Lampkin
    40 Bash Ali - Lamumba
    41 Patrick Lamumba - L Bash Ali

    Evander Holyfield takes over as the champion, with his win over Douglas. It will be interesting to track and compare his progress with Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis who were coming through now.

    Trevor Berbick's high rating is surprising still, although obviously he hasn’t maintained a high level of competition. To be fair though he isnt the only one. Most of the top 10 simply do not fight others top 10s very often. This is a trend which I think will continue.

    Interesting that George Foreman made his way back into the top 10. I actually didn’t expect that at this stage of his career. It seems as if his Holyfield fight was more deserving than I really remembered. I am surprised he was technicall a top 10 fighter at this time.

    Frank Bruno is a strange one. He had just the one fight (Tyson) in 3 years.

    I am undecided about the depth and quality of this era. The top 25 still looks pretty good and strong but at the same time, the lower tier top 10 and the top 20 don’t really seem to fight each other anywhere near as much as other eras which means there is less chance for it to change. It does seem that the modern trend (or at least from here) will show itself up as a strong looking group on paper at the top but a lack of depth. One thing which might skew the lack of depth is the increased weight divisions. The cruisereweight division has emerged, and slowly we see less heavies competing from this division. Theoretically this is meaning the pool of heavys is decreasing.
    choklab likes this.

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