Lineal Rankings System

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Boilermaker, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 George Foreman - W Schulz
    2 Michael Moorer - W Foster
    3 Riddick Bowe - L Holyfield
    4 Evander Holyfield W Mercer L Bowe
    5 Frank Bruno W McCall
    6 Oliver McCall - L Bruno
    7 Lennox Lewis - W Butler Fortune Morrisson
    8 Bruce Seldon - W Tucker Hipp
    9 Henry Akinwande - W Tucker Jones Wright
    10 Tony Tucker - L Seldon Akinwande
    11 Larry Holmes w McCAll Donaldson
    12 Herbie Hide L Bowe
    13 Chris okoh - W Lawson Wanyamo
    14 Franco Wanyama - L Delaney Wallyn
    15 James Thunder W Berbick Dancutta Parker Anis Foster L Wanyama
    16 Alexander Zolkin - Pepelli Cooper Tubbs
    17 Brian Nielson - Tubbs De leon & Others
    18 Tony Tubbs W Crowder L Zolkin Nielson
    19 Everett Martin - No Fights
    20 Tim Witherspoon - W Shelby Davis Puller
    21 Chris Byrd - W Rouse Jackson Puller Fitch & Others
    22 Phil Jackson -W Wainwright Ellis Davis L Byrd
    23 Mike Tyson - McNeeley Mathis
    24 Buster Mathis Jr - W Smith Garcia Aklea L Tyson
    25 Larry Donald D Dixon W Sargeant
    26 Zjelko Mavrovic W Fitch Young Bizot Murray & others
    27 Joe Hipp - W Brown Jaques L Seldon
    28 Alex Garcia - L Mathis

    I inserted 1995 here to keep things inorder. Not sure why i lost it.
    That makes sense, when i looked at it i thought that Foreman must have been stripped for not handpicking opponents or something simillar but your explanation makes perfect sense. I do remember that at this time, no one really mentioned the lineal title all that often. it was a funny time. Michael Spinks was promoted as the "people's champion" when Tyson was considered the World champion. While Foreman as i recall was just considered by mainstream as one of the World Champions, even though he was actually the lineal and imo real world champion of the time. Foreman made it worse at the time by opening declaring he would hand pick opponents who were young and would stand in front of him and fight. I dont recall any of them (including Briggs) being considered anywhere near the no 1 contender.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  2. sweetsci

    sweetsci Active Member Full Member

    Jan 22, 2008
    Yeah, I don't recall the word "lineal" being used prior to internet forums.

    Prior to the Lewis-Briggs fight people were questioning why Lewis would "defend" against a guy like Shannon Briggs. Ring, in an editorial I think, pointed out that Briggs was actually the real champion because he beat Foreman. It seemed to me at the time that even Briggs and his people didn't know what he had in the (now known as) lineal title.

    While I've never read this, I've always felt that Lewis smartly pursued a Briggs fight to cement his claim to the real world heavyweight championship.

    Some people put down the whole "lineal" champion concept, but I like the idea of a World Champion and I think lineal is a lot better than the whole money-go-round nonsense of organizational titles.
  3. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

    Oct 17, 2014
    The same one, although a bit smaller, with Hide at 4 in 1993, but 9 in 1994 (after his best win) and Williams at place 4 in 1991 is very unlikely too among others.
  4. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 George Foreman - W Grimsley
    2 Michael Moorer - W Shulz Botha
    3 Riddick Bowe - w Golota
    4 Evander Holyfield - W Czyz Tyson
    5 Mike Tyson W Bruno Seldon L Holyfield
    6 Frank Bruno - W McCAll
    7 Oliver McCall - W Maskaev Stanton
    8 Lennox Lewis - W Mercer
    9 Bruce Seldon - L Tyson
    10 Henry Akinwande - W Williams Zolkin
    11 Orlin Norris - w Woods Tucker Peques Wilson
    12 Tony Tucker - W Dixon Campbell L Norris
    13 Larry Holmes w Navarre Willis
    14 Herbie Hide W Murray Swindell
    15 Chris okoh - W Lawson Lanyama
    16 Garry Delaney - W Wanyama Paladino
    17 Dirk Wallyn W Wanyama Carranza & others L Smulders (pre rank)
    18 Franco Wanyama - L Delaney Wallyn
    19 James Thunder W Hinton Morris Navarre
    20 Alexander Zolkin - L Akinwande
    21 Brian Nielson - W Jackson Maciel Hunter Halstead Maynard Rhode
    22 Tony Tubbs No Fights
    23 Hasim Rahman - W Rone Michell Purity Edwards Knight Foster Young Berbick Sergeant Gonzalez Delgado
    24 Marcos Gonzalez - Arvizu Smith Martin L Rahman
    25 Everett Martin - W Burgess L Gonzalez
    26 Ray Mercer - L Lewis W Witherspoon
    27 Tim Witherspoon - W cole Gonzaez L Mercer
    28 Phil Jackson - l Lewis W Card Foster
    29 Lou Savarese - W McDowell Puller Mathis
    30 Buster Mathis Jr - W Smith NC Sullivan L Savarese
    31 Larry Donald W Hinton Valdes Roddy Mason Gaines
    32 Zjelko Mavrovic W Bizot Mills Mitchell
    33 Joe Hipp - W Corrigan Houpe Roberts Hinton
    34 Alex Garcia - No Fights

    Foreman's opponent was unranked, which is a litle sad.

    Riddick Bowe retires as the second best heavy in the world rankings. I am a bit surprised his last two fights against Golota were technically against an unranked fighter, but it does show just how protected many of the contenders have become.

    Tyson Holyfield was technically 4 vs 5. Tyson actually earned his spot by beating 2 of the top 10. It is no surprise that the great fighters are not afraid to meet the tough opposition.

    Bruce Seldon retires inside the top 10. A respectable finish and will be interesting to see if he can reclaim that position in his second career.

    The jimmy thunder blip is causing havoc still. Although when I think of the decent Australian heavys over the years such as thunder, Meehan and others, they all seem to have all been Kod quickly when fighting the best Brit and Euro heavys and had a little more success against some of the americans. And back in the 80s rankings I did, the local brits fared better than expected, so maybe the Brits were actually a touch better than usually given credit for?

    Brian Nielson is always given a bad wrap for level of competition, but the reality is that he is one of the few fighters fighting regularly and his level of competition is no worse than anyone else other than the actual elite.
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
    choklab likes this.
  5. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    I just looked at the hide situation, but it seems correct to me. He dropped because his Bent win was completely overridden by wins by Moorer, Foreman, and McCall over Holyfield, Moorer and Lewis. To be honest i dont see how a win over Michael Bent compares to any of these wins, under any criteria. I will have a look at Williams in 91.
  6. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    I also had a look at Williams. It also looks correct. Williams got his high ranking by beating Berbick and James Buster Douglas. Obviously you can argue that there were better fighters but that is all subjective. Certainly he wasnt what i have called a blip, like say an Everett Martin. I can remember when Williams got his shot at Tyson, he and Ruddock were being pushed pretty hard as the top contenders. The reality i think is that no one was beating Tyson in those days.
  7. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 Shannon Briggs - French Bowen Valdes Foreman
    2 George Foreman - W Savarese L Briggs
    3 Evander Holyfield - W Tyson Moorer
    4 Michael Moorer - W Bean L Holyfield
    5 Evander Holyfield - W Czyz Tyson
    6 Mike Tyson L Holyfield
    7 Lennox Lewis - McCall Akinwande Goloto
    8 Oliver McCall - W Yates DeVito L Lewis
    9 Henry Akinwande - W Welch Norris L Lewis
    10 Orlin Norris - L Akinwande
    11 Herbie Hide - W Tucker
    12 Tony Tucker - W Muhaymin Haynes L Hide
    13 Brian Nielson - reed pritchard Holmes Gonzales Douglas Grimsley Steele Wingfield
    14 Larry Holmes W Harris L Nielson
    15 Darren Corbett - Rafferty McGee Okoh Sanjurfo NOrton
    16 Chris okoh - L Corbett
    17 Julius Francis W Chincangu Francis L Mavrovich (Pre rank)
    18 Garry Delaney - W Kiser Oboh L Francis
    19 Johnny Nelson W Aouissi Wallyn Murray
    20 Dirk Wallyn W Connecny Blieck L Nelson D Turcenov
    21 Franco Wanyama W Kadou
    22 John Ruiz - W Thunder Anis
    23 Maurice Harris - W Hampton Thunder L HOlmes
    24 Chris Byrd - W Peterson Cooper Swindell Thunder
    25 James Thunder L Ruiz W Grimsley L Harris Byrd
    21 Tony Tubbs W Melo
    22 Hasim Rahman - W Tillman Wooden Sullivan Toia
    23 Michael Grant - W Wooden Butler Cole Gonzalez
    24 Lionel Butller - W Gonzalez Woods L Grant
    25 Danell Nicholson W Gonzalez haris Williams
    26 Ike Ibeabuchi - W Jones Wilson Gonzalez Tua
    27 Wladimir Klitchsko - w Weida Monroe Young Wills Ashleigh Machiel WilliamsonBotomawungu Pritcchard Gonzales Halstead Husarik ampkins
    28 Richard Jackson- W Gonzalez
    29 Marcos Gonzalez - W Manjares L Butler Nicholsen Ibeabuchi Nielson Klitchsko Jackson
    30 Ed Mahone - W Hinton Hernandes Smith Bellochi Curry Martin
    31 Everett Martin - W Roddy L Mahone
    32 Ray Mercer - No Fights
    33 Larry Donald - W Woods Abdin Willis Ribalta Lally Biggs Kennedy Witherspoon
    34 Tim Witherspoon - W Billups L Donald
    35 Keith McKnight - w Litman Donalsdson Scott Jackson
    36 Phil Jackson -W Williams L McNight
    37 David Izon - W Daniels Savarese
    38 Lou Savarese - L Foreman Izon
    39 Zjelko Mavrovic W Francis Eros Cantatos
    40 Ross Purity W Boyd Rhode L Purity
    41 Joe Hipp - W Corrigan Houpe Roberts Hinton
    42 Alex Garcia - W Lopez

    Shannon Briggs win over George Foreman technically was an unranked fighter beating no 1 and on par with Michael Spinks' win, although technically If I recall correctly Briggs may have actually earned a low ranking in previous years whereas Spinks didn’t. I am fairly sure that Briggs would have had a higher ranking than Spinks.

    The top 10 does look as strong as any era around at the moment.

    Interesting to see Ruiz and Byrd make an appearance around the same time I always thought they would have similar all time rankings so it will be interesting to plot their progress.

    Chris Byrd really ended the aussie hopes with wins over Jimmy Thunder and Craig Peterson. He went on to become a lot better than I realised at the time.

    The Wlad Klitchsko and Ike Ibeabuchi both make their way into the top 30.

    Overall there looks to be a pretty strong top 10 with a pretty solid new wave of contenders starting to make their way up the rankings.
    choklab likes this.
  8. Tonifranz

    Tonifranz Active Member Full Member

    May 3, 2009
    Where's 1995?
  9. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    should be fixed now.
  10. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004

    1 Lennox Lewis - W Briggs Mavrovic
    2 Shannon Briggs - W Rhode L Lewis
    3 Evander Holyfield - W Bean
    4 Mike Tyson No Fights
    5 Oliver McCall - W Macklin Muhaymin Cohen
    6 Henry Akinwande - No Fights
    7 Orlin Norris - W Washington Miller
    8 Herbie Hide - W Reid Fischer
    9 John Ruiz - W Tucker Ballard
    10 Tony Tucker - W Wright L Ruiz
    11 Brian Nielson - W Murphy Butler Layne & Others
    12 Larry Holmes No Fights
    13 Bruce Scott - W Negus Corbett
    14 Darren Corbett - W Wallyn Okei Dominiguez Scott
    15 Chris okoh -No Fights
    16 Vitali Klitchsko W Rhode Billups Francis Ribalta & others
    17 Axel Shultz - W Francis Mason
    18 Julius Francis L Schulz Klitchsko
    19 Garry Delaney - W Griffiths
    20 Johnny Nelson W Oboh
    21 Dirk Wallyn W Petranyi Beres & others L Corbett
    22 Franco Wanyama No Fights
    23 Maurice Harris - W Latif Wofford & others
    24 Chris Byrd - W Amos Castillo Purity
    25 James Thunder W Witherspoon
    26 David Tua - Wooden Woods Tubbs Curry Rahman
    27 Hasim Rahman - W Lane L Tua
    28 Michael Grant - W Izon Sullivan
    29 Lionel Butller - L Nielson
    30 Danell Nicholson W Mayo Martin Sevill Haines
    31 Ike Ibeabuchi - W Rea Davis
    32 Ross Purity - W Hulstrom Klitschko L Donald Byrd (pre rank)
    33 Wladimir Klitchsko - W Mcintyre Martin Dixon & Othes L Purity
    34 Vassily Jirov - W waller Kiser & others
    35 Kiser - Stevens Brennan Jackson L Jirov
    36 Sedrick Fields W Jackson & Others L Washington Martin Naumov (pre rank)
    37 Richard Jackson- L Kiswer Fields

    I have to say there are an awful lot of retirements and no fights in the top 10.

    Lennox Lewis is starting to cement his legacy. From memory, he wasn’t really considered a true world champ at this time. Perhaps because of the top 10, he had only actually had a winning record against no 10 and no 2 (who was not that highly ranked). They Tyson and Holyfield fights really were about to dramatically change his legacy.

    Wlad's ranking is an interesting one. Is it a fair type ranking? He was looking pretty good at the time, but then lost to Purity who was struggling and I would have thought not deserving of any more than a number 30 or so ranking.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  11. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 Lennox Lewis - W Holyfield D Holyfield
    2 Shannon Briggs - D Botha
    3 Evander Holyfield - W L Holyfield D Holyfield
    4 Mike Tyson W Botha L Norris
    5 Oliver McCall - W Cohen NC Hinton
    6 Henry Akinwande - Minus Shaheed
    7 Orlin Norris - W Reed Norris
    8 Vitali Klitchsko - W Hide Youla Mahone Sullivan
    9 Herbie Hide - L Klitchsko
    10 John Ruiz - W Cawley Feliz Williams
    11 ****y Ryan - Strickland Nielson Rhode
    12 Brian Nielson - W McNeeley Phillips Witherspoon & others L Ryan
    13 Larry Holmes - James Smith
    14 Johnny Nelson - Thompson Scott & others
    15 Juan Carlos Gomez - W Domingues Scott Tagoe
    16 Bruce Scott - L Nelson Gomes
    17 Darren Corbett - W Alloun Ashton Simpson
    18 Kostiantyn Okhrei - W GAyle & others L Symon & others Pre rank
    18 Ken Gayle - Hunter Okoh & others
    19 Chris okoh -L Gayle
    20 Wlad Klitchsko - W Vujicic Martin Larosa Chincangu Shulz Jackson Eros
    21 Axel Shultz - L Klitchsko
    22 Julius Francis W Reid Williams Welch
    23 Garry Delaney - W Keeton Brown Swaby
    24 Vincenzo Cantatore - Wallyn Ray Reed
    25 Yan Kulkov - W Wallyn
    26 Dirk Wallyn W Petranyi Kezadi Elekes L Cantadore Kulkov
    27 Franco Wanyama W Blieck Jerling
    28 Derek Jefferson - Cooper Sullivan Foster Harris
    29 Maurice Harris - W Monaco williams cole l Jefferson
    30 Ike Ibeabuchi - W Byrd
    31 Chris Byrd - W Sargeant Ribalta Smith L Ibeabuchi
    32 James Thunder W Dixon
    33 David Tua - W Bell Sutcliffe
    34 Hasim Rahman - W rush Weather L Tua
    35 Michael Grant - W Abdon Savarese Golota
    36 Danell Nicholson W Billups Swindell Muhaymin Brown
    37 Ross Purity - W Boyd Monaco
    38 Vassily Jirov - W Rendon Maxime Williams
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
    choklab likes this.
  12. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

    Oct 17, 2014
    But was he before really in the top 10, in 1993? Also his ranking in 1997, behind Orlin Norris, outside of the top 10?
    He stopped Tucker when in two rounds (who was never stopped, despite a injury vs. Seldon in the late rounds, but went over 12 rounds with Tyson and Lewis) and was after this on spot 2 in the independent (unbiased) computer world ranking (by the IBO/ PBO), in front of Michael Moorer and Lennox Lewis, only behind of Evander Holyfield. He kept there in the top 3 till June 1999, when Klitschko destroyed him.

    Williams was in 1991 total over the hill and was several times stopped.

    And you have Levi Bilups on place 12 in 1991, but Michael Moorer at 34, although the later one defeated whom in that year.
    Just as you have in 1993 Everett Martin on place 6, but "Double M" who won vs. him at 34.
    Then you have Ray Mercer 7 places over Jesse Fergusson, in the year the later one defeat the first.
  13. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror booted Full Member

    Dec 31, 2009
    This seems about right Ike Ibeabuchi beating Chris Byrd deserved to be a #30 kind of ranking at the time. The exposure and hype surrounding a lot of fighters distorts where they really were at the time.

    It’s gone down in boxing folklore that Ike was on the cusp of breaking into things in the top ten, maybe he was, but I always thought the guys he fought were in reality still around prospect level rather than knocking on the door of the true elite.
  14. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    Just checked all that. The losses you referred to all occurred before the fighters received their ranking. It isnt that common (although i do notice that it is becoming a little more common) in the 90s. You dont get credit for beating a fighter whose form improves and starts beating other fighters. For example, when Ross Purity beat Wlad, his ranking doesnt go up because Wlad started beating better fighters than himself. AS others have pointed out, there can be some skewing of the rankings (and i think this is made worse when they are not publicised or recognised) but there is no way around this without making personal judgment calls which i didnt want to do. That is all for discussion about the rankings which is fair enough. That is all they will ever do, although i must say, when they are finished i will be interested to add together the annual rankings to get an all time to 1000 or so fighters. It will also be interesting to see how some of the top 10 contenders to some of the older fighters. The career of say a Ken Norton vs a Max Schmelling etc.
    sweetsci likes this.
  15. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    1 Lennox Lewis - W Grant Botha Tua
    2 Oliver McCall - W Lainhart McIntyre Fields
    3 Jameel McCline - W Richardson Fields Minus D Williams Guererro
    4 Sedrick Fields - W Briggs Smith Dixon L McLine McCall Maskaev(Pre Rank)
    5 Shannon Briggs - W Williams Curry L Fields
    6 Evander Holyfield - W Ruiz
    7 Mike Tyson W Francis Saverese NC Golota
    8 Henry Akinwande - W Sarendo Chasteen Craven
    9 Andrew Golota - W Norris NC Tyson
    10 Orlin Norris - W Rone L Golota
    11 Wladimir Klitschko - W Wolfgram Bostice Barrett Byrd
    12 Chris Byrd - W Washington Klitschko L Klitschko
    13 Vitali Klitchsko - W Hoffman L Byrd
    14 Herbie Hide - No Fights
    15 John Ruiz - L Holyfield
    16 Brian Nielson - Williams Ryan & others
    17 ****y Ryan - W Washington NC Yates L Nielson
    18 Larry Holmes - W Weaver
    19 Johnny Nelson - W Aurino Watt
    20 Juan Carlos Gomez - W Siluvangi Castro Mayfield
    21 Adam Watt - W Melbourne Petridis Scott L Nelson
    22 Bruce Scott -W Woolas Keeton L Watt
    23 Darren Corbett - W Lewis
    24 Alexander Gurov W Prather Yelistratov Okhrei
    25 Glen Johnson - W Owoh L Shieka Vanderpool Branco
    26 Toks Owoh - W Okhrei Booth Johnson
    27 Jean Marc Mormeck - W Okhrei Williams Castillo & Others
    28 Kostiantyn Okhrei - L Mormeck owoh Gurov D Beburia
    29 Ken Gayle - W Williams
    30 Chris okoh -L Gayle
    31 Mark Holden - W Francis
    32 Julius Francis L Tyson Holden
    33 Jesper Kristiansen W Delaney Others
    34 Garry Delaney - W Neegus L Kristiansen
    35 Vincenzo Cantatore - W McKinney Lobo

    Lennox Lewis starts the decade out by continuing the 90s tradition of defending the title against guys in the 30s. Grant Tua and both were three good fighters but looking at the rankings, if he wanted to dodge guys he already fought and beat, he should have fought against Tyson, Norris, Vitali, Hyde or Ruiz.

    Sedrick Fields beating Shannon Briggs was a surpise. This could become the biggest blip in top 10 rankings ever, but we will see what happens with it.

    Oliver McCall retaining a surprisingly high ranking. Maybe he deserved a decider with Lennox?

    Andrew Golota finally cracks the top 10 before retiring after the Mike Tyson Fight.

    I have to say, I cant remember a stronger looking top 10-15 from any year.

    Australian Adam Watt moves into position 22. Real surprise for me.

    Who would have thought that technically Corbett holds a victory over the world Champion Lennox Lewis. Bit of a trivia question that one.

    Toks Owoh becomes the first supermiddleweight to enter the rankings in a long time.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019

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