Al Ettore was a really good fighter. I think he looks impressive against Joe Louis, he was a smart boxer with very good head movement. louis took him apart regardless.
1942 1 Joe Louis W B Baer, Simon 2 Tami Mauriello - W Pasor Burman, Musto, Nova 3 Jimmy Bivins w Maxim, Pastor, Savold 4 Lee Savold w Musto L Musto, Mauriello, Bivins 5 Alfred Brown W Brooks, Burman & Others 6 Lou Brooks - W Musto, L Brown 7 Tony musto W Savold L Brooks, Maurielo 8 Lou Nova L Savold, Mauriella 9 Tony Galento No Fights 10 Melio Bettina W Dorazio & others 11 Bob Pastor W Franklin, Bivins, Lesnevich & Others 12 Ezzard Charles W Burley, Maxim & others 13 Booker Beckwith W Maxim, L Bettina, Charles 14 Joey Maxim W Sheppard & Others L Charles & Bivins 15 Red Burman W Schkor & Others 16 Turkey Thompson W Dorazio & Others L Valentino(Pre rank) 17 Gus Dorazio L Brooks, Bettina, Thompson 18 Harry Bobo L Dorazio, Bettina 19 Lem Franklin L Pastor, Bobo, Muscato Jimmy Bivins is looking very, very impressive with his rise. Apparently he was actually awarded the Duration Heavyweight title, which makes him the equivalent of an alphabet title holder nowadays. In fact, after beating heavyweight contenders no 2, 3 and 4 on this list, and with Joe Louis in the army it seems that he probably has a better claim than most alphabet title holders. Good to See Ezzard Charles cropping up on the lists, even at this stage. I also see that Turkey Thompson was apparently ranked 5th (according to boxrec). If you look at who he beat at this time, and coming off a loss to Valentino, I have to say that this is nothing short of appalling (unless I have missed something). It would be interesting to see what SuzyQ or others think of this.
1943 1 Joe Louis – No Fights 2 Jimmy Bivins – w Charles, Mauriello, Valentino & others 3 Tami Mauriello - W Musto, Barlund, Savold & others L Bivins 4 Lee Savold – w W Franklin, Nova, Blunt & Others L Blunt, Mauriello 5 Eddie Blunt – W Savold, L Savold 6 Lee Q Murray – W Lowry, Walker, Brooks, Brown, Bobo L Bivins 7 Harry Bobo – W Brown, Walker & Others L Murray 8 Buddy Walker – W Musto, Sheppard, Perroni & others 9 Joe Baksi – W Brooks, Schkor, Walker & Others L Dorazio (pre rank) 10 Johny Shkor – W Brown & Others L Baksi then Retired 11 Gus Dorazio – Franklin, Hart, Barlund & others L Baksi 12 Al Hart – W Brooks, Brown & others L Dorazio 13 Curties Sheppard - W Brown & Others L Walker, Maxim & Others 14 Alfred Brown – L Bobo, Buddy Walker, Murray, Shkor, Hart, Sheppard Jimmy Bivins run here was very impressive. If any one was unlucky due to the war, it seems that it was him. He cleaned out all the contenders, in a Joe Louis manner including Louis’s eventual successor. It seems like Louis Bivins had the potential to be a Frazier Ali style rivalry. It looks like the ratings are going to skew again for a while, with Eddie Blunt and Big Alfred Brown the 250 plus fighter not managing to go on with their form after getting upset wins to push into the rankings. I am cutting it off at 14.
1944 1 Joe Louis – W Davis 2 Jimmy Bivins – W Murray 3 Lee Oma – W Mauriella, nova & Others 5 Joe Baksi – W MAuriello, Savold 6 Tami Mauriello – W Oma, Baksi & others L Baksi, Oma 7 Lee Savold – w Dorazio, Baksi L Baksi 8 Eddie Blunt – No Fights 9 Lee Q Murray – L Bivins, W Sheppard, Thompson & Others 10 Melio Bettina – W Walker, Sheppard & Others 11 Curtis Sheppard – W Hart, Dorazio, Walker & others L Murray, Bettina, Walker 12 Buddy Walker – W Sheppard, Bobo & others L Sheppard, Maxim, Bettina, 13 Harry Bobo – W Brown, Benson L Walker then Retired 14 Tommy Reed – W Dorazio & Others L Bettina then Retired 15 Dixie Lee Oliver – W Dorazio & others 16 Gus Dorazio – L Sheppard, Reed, oliver, Savold 17 Clayton worlds – W Hart & Others L Tiger Jack Fox (pre Rank) 18 Al Hart – W Thompson L Sheppard, Worlds 19 Alfred Brown – L Bobo, Walker, Sheppard The top 10 looks very entrenched at the moment. Louis could arguably have been forced to retire under the 2 year rule I have been using but I have counted the Davis fight although it is listed as an exhibition.
1945 1 Joe Louis – No Fights 2 Jimmy Bivins – W Walker, Bettina, Sheppard, Moore & Others 3 Tami Mauriello – W Oma, Nova, Barlund & Others 3 Lee Oma – W Baksi & Others L Mauriella 4 Joe Walcott – W Murray, Sheppard & others L Allen (pre rank) 5 Jimmy Bell – W Baksi & Others 6 Joe Baksi – W Barlund & Others L Oma, Walcott, Bell 7 Lee Savold – W Oliver & others 8 Nathan Mann – W Blunt & others L Blunt 9 Eddie Blunt – W Mann L Mann 10 Johnny Flynn – W Murray, Knox L Bivins 11 Archie Moore – W Marshall, Riley & Others L Bivins, Holman Williams 12 Lee Holman Williams – W Moore Lytell Burley and others L Moore 13 O Dell Riley – W Flanagan, Murray & others L Moore 14 Lee Q Murray – W Worlds & Others L Flynn, Riley, Walcott 15 Melio Bettina – D Bivins 16 Elmer Ray – W Gardner, Daniels & others 17 Curtis Sheppard – W Daniels, Allen & Other L Daniels, Bivins, Walcott 18 Perk Daniels – W Sheppard L Ray, Sheppard 19 Arturo Godoy – W Walker & others To me, it starting to become clearer and clearer that Jimmy Bivins is a clear no 2 fighter in the 40s. He has beaten virtually everyone except Joe Louis. And Mauriella isn’t far behind either. If their was such a thing as alphabet titles, it is clear that these two would have one, if Joe Louis were ever stripped. Interesting to see Jersey Joe Walcott climb into the rankings. And also to see middleweight Holman Williams mixing it up in the top 20.
So was Lee Q Murray. Recognized by the Ohio and Maryland Commisions. Don't forget his duration title.
I am interested to see your 1946-1947 list. Especially with Elmer Ray. He deserves a top 3 spot, and hopefully when you do the 1946-1947 lists, he will be high up there. Disagree, Mauriello never beat any of the dangerous top black fighters Murray, Bivins, Ray, Thompson, Bobo, Franklin, Walcott....to rank up there. He was good, though.
Maybe for a couple years. But not for the whole decade. In 1946, with both in the peaks of their primes, Walcott wins a clear decision over Jimmy Bivins. Also Bivins did get lucky to scrape by Murray in their first fight "Jimmy Bivins, Cleveland, ranked by the NBA as the country's top active heavyweight, was awarded a thunderously booed 10 round decision over Lee Q. Murray of South Norwalk, Conn., at the Arena Wednesday night. The decision of Referee Jackie Davis and Judges Jim Parker and Herb Williams was unanimous, but the record crowd of 14,500 greeted the decision with almost solid disapproval and continued booing for more than 10 minutes after the decision was announced. Bivins' face was a mass of blod at the finish and referee Jackie Davis' shirt was drenched in gore from a deep cut which Murray opened above Bivins' left eye in the 6th stanza." -Associated Press Unofficial AP scorecard - 6-3-1 Murray
1946 1 Joe Louis – W Mauriello, Conn 2 Joey Maxim – W Walcott, Walker & Others 3 Elmer Ray – W Savold, Walcott & others 4 Joe Walcott – W Bivins, OMa & others L Maxim, Ray 5 Lee Q Murray – W Bivins, Daniels & Others 6 Ezzard Charles – W Bivins, Moore, Marshall & Others 7 Jimmy Bivins – W Smith & Others L Walcott, Murray & Charles 8 Tami Mauriello – W Thomas, Woodcock L Joe Louis 9 Lee Oma – W Bell, Lesnevich, Muscato L Walcott, Muscato 10 Phil Muscato – W Oma, Maxim, Odowd & others L Maxim, Gomez (Pre Rank) 11 George Fitch - W Everett & Others L Ray, Sheppard (Pre rank) 12 Willis Applegate - W Everett, Dorazio & others L Schwimmer & others (pre rank) 13 Cleo Everett – L Daniels(pre rank), Fitch, Applegate W Kapovich & others I have cut the ranings off at 13. The top 8 looks like it is very strong and I dare say, would be close to ring ratings. After 10, though, it looks like we have a bit of the usual warp. As predicted by Suzy, Elmer Ray has moved into the top 3. It was a shame we lost a couple of years of Louis’ defences, because we would have seen the Conn fight back when it should, plus, I Believe that Bivins and Ray would have both got their chances. About now (or a year earlier for Bivins). Still, it has been astoundingly impressive clearance of top title contenders, by louis.
I guess there are always popular and unpopular decisions, Even Louis was not a popular winner always, or Ali, or even Welterweight Sugar Ray Robinson. but results are results, and while i see your point, let us not forget that Bivins is still fighting the top contenders and we are more than halfway through the decade. His results do seem to be slipping, but i dont think it would be unreasonable to rate him second behind Louis.
Now this is what I am talking about! Six great fighters right here. Awesome list. These gooftroopers are a joke. Where is Hatchetman Sheppard, Joe Baksi, Bruce Woodcock, Johnny Flynn, Tommy Gomez? All these men were top 10 fighters that year...far better than the gooftroopers you listed above.
My early predictions for 1947 1. Joe Louis 2. Jersey Joe Walcott 3. Elmer Ray 4. Ezzard Charles 5. Archie Moore 6. Jimmy Bivins 7. Lee Q Murray 8. Joey Maxim 9. Joe Baksi 10. Pat Comiskey
Strangely enough, 3 or 4 of these guys (from memory) looked like the would be on the list of the next 10 or so spots, but cut it off, because there was a few (dare i say it) gooftroopers who looked like they were opening the lists up a bit, and it got a bit long.
1947 1 Joe Louis – W Walcott 2 Joe Walcott – W Maxim, Ray L Louis 3 Joey Maxim – W clark & Others L Walcott X 2 4 Elmer Ray – W Charles & Others L Maxim 5 Archie Moore - W Sheppard, Bivins, Fitch & others L Charles 6 Jimmy Bivins – W Murray, Sheppard & Others L Charles, Murray, Moore 7 Lee Q Murray – W Lowry, Bivins, Sheppard & others L Bivins 8 Ezzard Charles – W Bivins, Moore, Marshall & Others L Ray 9 Turkey Thompson – W Godoy, Riviera & Others 10 Kid Riviera – W Schkor & others L Turkey Thompson 11 Walter Hafer – W Schkor L Muscato & others (pre rank) 12 Enrique Felpi – W Schkor L Winberg (pre rank) 13 Johnny Schkor – W Mauriella L Riviera, Hafer, Help 14 Gus Lesnevich – W Bettina, Mauriella 15 Tami Mauriello – W Fitche & OthersL Schkor & Lesnevich Looking at the results, it seems that Ezzard Charles was desperately unlucky with the timing of his wins and could easily be a top 5 or better fighter, but really there was nothing much in the results. I have to ask, was there ever a better list of top 10 contenders (or at least top 8) as there was in this particular year? Particularly from a pound for pound sense. Good to see Turkey Thompson find his way straight into the top 10 after a 2 year layoff.
1948 1 Joe Louis – W Walcott 2 Joe Walcott – L Louis 3 Joe Kahut – L Maxim & others (pre rank) W Maxim 4 Joey Maxim – W Bivins D Valentino X 2 L Kahut 5 Ezzard Charles – W Moore, Ray, Bivins BAksi & Others 6 Elmer Ray – W Smith & others L Charles 7 Bob Foxworth – W Morrow & Others L Smith (& Others) Pre Rank 8 Leonard Morrow - W Lytell, Moore & others L Foxworth 9 Lloyd Gibson – W Moore & others L Perkins (pre rank) 10 Archie Moore - W Smith, Bivins, Lowrie, Hall & Others L Charles, Morrow, Hall, Gibson 11 Henry Hall W Moore, Lytell & Others L Moore 12 Jimmy Bivins – W Shkor, Thompson, Valentino, Flynn L Moore charles Maxim 13 Colion Chaney –W Peaks, Walker & others 14 Johnny Flynn - W Felpi, Muscato, Paine, Bettina & Others L Bivins 15 Rusty Payne – W Peaks, Sheppard & others L Flynn 16 Sid Peaks – W Murray, Riviera, Schkor L Chaney, Payne 17 Dusty Wilkerson – W Walker, Jones L Moore 18 Gene Jones – W Haynes & Others L Wilkison 19 Johnny Haynes – L Bivins, Jones, Flynn W Murray X 2, 20 Lee Q Murray – W English L Peaks, Haynes 21 Pat Valentino - W Thompson & Others L Bivins & Others (pre rank) D Maxim X2 22 Turkey Thompson – W Murray & others L Bivins Valentino 23 Kid Riviera – W Commiskey & others L Peaks Where did Maxim’s loss to Joe Kahut come from? This is surely going to skew the ratings for a little while, it will be interesting to see what effect it has on them. Suzy, what do you know about this fight? I am guessing Kahut is a gooftrooper. Ezzard Charles really is putting together a very impressive run, slicing through the contenders. I don’t think it is any co incidence that he and Walcott went on to succeed Louis, they had becomne the two standout contenders, by the looks of things. A bit of a surprise to me to see that Archie Moore was one of the first of the big guns to crack with his loss to Leonard Morrow (comprehensive KO) and some other surprise losses to lesser known fighters. Also interesting to see Morrow lose to Foxworth, who might have been an interesting prospect if he hadn’t been forced to retire from a detached retina. I see from looking at his record, he had a split decision with Joey Maxim and he beat Bob Saterfield and Enrique Felpi (who was ranked 12th last year under this system). It looks like Lee Q Murray’s run has come to an end. I cant see him getting back into the top 20.
