Lineal Rankings System

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Boilermaker, Jul 12, 2010.



  1. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    bump.... i forgot about SuzieQ and his gooftroopers:thumbup:
     
  2. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1949
    1 Joe Louis No Fights (Did officially retire during year)
    2 Ezzard Charles - W Lesnevich, Valention Maxim
    3 Joe Walcott L Charles W TAndburg
    4 Lee Oma - w Muscato, Lowrey
    5 Freddie Beshore - L Oma W Cuthbertson
    6 Joey Maxim - W Lesnevich, Kahut, Peterson L Charles
    7 Tommy Gomez - W Peterson & 9 others
    8 Bill Peterson - W Edwards L Maxim, Gomez, Flynn, Thompson
    9 Babe Edwards W Culbertson L Flood, Kahut
    10 Harold Johnson W Bivins, Godoy & others L Moore, Walcott
    11 Jimmy Bivins - W Henry & Others L Moore, Johnson
    12 Clarence Henry W Culbertson & others L Bivins
    13 Jack Flood W Culbertson, Edwards & others
    14 Baby Dutch Culbertson W Kahut beshore, Edwards, Henry Flood
    15 Oakland Billy Smith W Butcher NC Henry L Morrow
    16 Grant Butcher W Kahut, Marshall L Smith
    17 Joe Kahut W Stevens, Bosnich L Clbertson, Edwards,Butcher
    18 Kid Riviera W Ray & Others
    19 Elmer Ray W Bodie, Peakes L Riviera
    20 Archie Moore - W Morrow, Bivins, Muscato, Satterfield & others L Bacon (DQ)
    21 Leonard Morrow - W Smith, Bivins, Godoy L Bivins, Moore

    The Louis, Charles, Walcott trio do seem to be at the top of the tree here. Joe Kahut seems to be the one who upset the apple cart the most, allowing a large group of guys into the rankings who are not traditionally ranked. I wonder if this has lead to hthe likes of Lee Q Murray or Satterfield dropping out of the ratings and Archie Moore, and Elmer Ray struggling to keep in the top 20. Tommy Gomez is one interesting fighter who seems to have snuck through with some solid (if somewhat padded) series of wins. Kid Riviera is another of pretty decent size who might be a little underated in relation to others from his time. A decent sized heavyweight too.
     
  3. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1950
    1 Ezzard Charles W Louis, Barone
    2 Joe Louis W Brion L Charles
    3 Rex Layne - W Kahut, Thompson, Walcott
    4 Joe Walcott - W Johnson, Skhor, Hoff L Layne
    5 Lee Oma - w Beshore, Satterfield & Others L Saterfield
    6 Satterfield - W Gomez, Oma L Oma
    7 Young Harry Wills - W Beshore L Bucher & Others
    8 Freddie Beshore - L Oma, Charles, Wills
    9 Joey Maxim - W Mills, Peterson & others
    10 Tommy Gomez - W Donato, Moran L Satterfield
    11 Kahut - w O neil, Hagen L Maxim
    12 Roscoe Toles - W Peterson
    13 Bill Peterson - W L Kahut, Toles, Maxim
    14 Harry Mathews - W Acinega, Muscato, Flood & Others
    15 Glen Northcott - W acinega & Others
    16 Joe Thomas - W Acinega
    17 Arcinega - W O Neil, Fox L Mathews Northcott, Thomas
    18 O Neil, W edwards, L peterson, Butcher, Kahut, Arcinega

    Tommy Gomez ends his career just inside the top 10 with a loss to Bob Satterfield. Obviously not a superstar but also worthy of more than just being a nobody. Also interesting to see Joe Kahut, whose losses was responsible for letting quite a few fighters into the rankings moving back up the ratings. Roscoe Toles is another who probably has a better record than most think and who seems to have ended with a good win over Peterson. The top 6 looks very solid to me.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    There is some excellent research here! Really enjoyed reading this.
     
  5. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Over the years, i am hoping that i will catch up to real time. It will be interesting to see how it sits. the system is still pretty good. With some minor changes such as somehow eliminating the losses where a top contender starts losing to poor unrated fighters, it would actually be a real lot better and more accurate.
    I do wonder if it will start to struggle in modern times where it is more important to have a string of zeros against unranked fighters than to beat top contenders but in a decade or two we should hopefully know. I do think that this would be easily the best ranking system we could have in boxing, and it would be really good if it was the only ranking system used and was publicised as such. Who knows, once I catch up to real time, it might even gain some form of credibility.

    ON the flip side, it might also get magically transported to the General forum which usually does wonders for wrecking threads!
     
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  6. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1951

    1 Joe Walcott W Charles L Charles
    2 Ezzard Charles W Maxim, Walcott, Layne, Kahut L Walcott
    3 Marciano - W Layne, Beshore, Louis & Others
    4 Joe Louis W Beshore, Savold, Bivins
    5 Rex Layne - W Peterson, Satterfield & Others L Marciano
    6 Lee Oma - L Ezzard Charles
    7 Wayne Bascom - W Satterfield, Summerin, Gibson & Others
    8 Bob Satterfield - L Layne, Bascom
    9 Harold Johnson - W Moore & Others L Moore D Sys
    10 Archie Moore - Bivins, Henry, Johnson & others L Johnson
    11 Clarence Henry W Bivins, Baker, Culbertson & Others
    12 Bob Baker - W Bivins & others L Henry D Riviera
    13 Jimmy Bivins -W Lowrey & others L Moore, Henry, Louis, Baker
    14 Young Harry Wills - W Manigault L Bivins
    15 Jimmy Slade W Walls & Cockell L Keene (pre rank)
    16 Don Cockell W Marshall, Beshore & others L Slade
    17 Harry Mathews W Beshore, Peterson, Culbertson, Marshall, Butcher, Henry, Nardico
    18 Freddie Beshore - L Louis, Cockell, Mathews, Marciano
    19 Joey Maxim - W Murphy L Charles (x2)

    Congratulations to Lee Oma and the Great Joe Louis who both have their last fight this year as top 10 contenders. It seems a pretty accurate top 10 too. I wonder what Suzie Q thinks of the current lot of Gooftroopers.

    Bascom, who I had never heard of was starting to put together a pretty good run and must have looked like one of the better up and coming prospects, though history will show he couldn’t sustain it. And he looks like potentionally opening up some of those strange ripples. Young Harry Wills is an interesting one, Young Harry wills must be the most commonly named boxer, there a re pages of them. Surely he couldn’t have had that many kids!

    Archie Moore fought (by my count which could be wrong) 17 times in a year. His only loss was the last of the year, a rematch against Johnson where he would quickly avenge next year. What a true legend of the sport.

    Harry Mathews deserves huge credit for absolutely ripping through so many of the previously ranked top 10 to 25 or so fighters in his 16 fights for the year. Being unbeaten since 1943,in a run which would ultimately be take Rocky Marciano to stop him, it really does bring a new perspective to one of the Rock's challengers, particularly on a pound for pound basis. Although he technically dropped 3 places he certainly was starting to solidify his spot as a fringe top 10 contender.

    Tommy Gomez drops out of the top 20 due to his retirement.
     
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  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Solid work, Boilermaker.
     
  8. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1952

    1 Rocky Marciano W Savold, Mathew, Walcott& others
    2 Joe Walcott W Charles L Marciano
    3 Harry Mathews W Layne, Lowrie, Wills & others L Marciano
    3 Rex Layne W Charles & Others L Mathews & others (pre rank)
    4 Ezzard Charles W Bivins, Brion, Reynolds L Walcott, Layne
    5 Tommy Harrison W Bivins Bascon&Others L Olsen & others (pre Rank)
    6 Jimmy Bivins W Wallace, Bascom & others L Harrison Charles
    7 Archie Moore w Johnson slade henry Dunlap Maxim & others
    8 Coley Wallace W Dunlap & others L Bivins
    9 Bob Dunlap W Brion, Peterson & others L Moore, Wallace
    10 Cesar Brion W Bacon Kahut others L Dunlap Charles
    11 Wayne Bascom - W Watson, Powell L Brion, Watson, bivins,
    12 Toxie Hall - W Watson, Holman, Culbertson & others L Powell & b Johnson D Simpson
    13 John Holman - W Watson & Others L Watson Hall
    14 Watson W Bascom Holman L Bascom Holman Hall
    16 Clarence Henry w Jones L Johnson Moore
    17 Bob Satterfield - w Johnson L Henry Johnson
    18 Harold Johnson - W Moore & Others L Moore D Sys
    19 Billy Gilliam W Baker & Others L Riviera, Baker (pre Rank)
    20 Bob Baker -W Gilliam L Gilliam

    Mathews looks to have been in excellent form until running into Marciano, a solid top 5 contender with a lengthy unbeaten streak. Also interesting to see Rex Layn rank so highly .

    Toxie Hall, has made history by being the first person to debut in the top 15 in their very first year of boxing. Quite impressive really.

    The Bob Satterfield, Clarence Henry, Harold Johnson, Archie Moore group seem very competitive with each other. Archie Moore is just starting to emerge from the pack which probably explains partly why he ultimately got his shot at the Rock.

    While not on the list it is interesting to see someone like Valdez starting to crop up in losing fights with the fring top 10 - 20 group. Staying consistent with the common theme where fighters would regularly struggle early on before eventually improving with more fights (and losses). Not sure how long this trend will continue. i am guessing it will stop by the 90s.
     
  9. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1953

    1 Rocky Marciano W Walcott & La Starza
    2 Joe Walcott L Marciano
    3 Don Cockell W Farr, Mathews & Others
    4 Harry Mathews W Beshore L Cockell D Beshore
    5 Roland La Starza W Layne L Marciano
    6 Earl Walls - W Kahut, Layne & others
    7 Rex Layne W McLure & Others L La Starza, Charles, Walls
    8 Nino Valdes - W charles, neuhause & others L (pre rank)Moore, Gilliam, Baker
    9 Harold Johnson W Slade, Gillian, Hall, Charles, Wright
    10 Ezzard Charles W Bascon, Harrison, Gilliam, Watson & others L Valdes, Johnson
    11 Dan Bucceroni - Bascom Harrison Slade Beshore & others
    12 Tommy Harrison W Bivins Bascon Burnett L Charles Bucceroni D Slade
    13 Jimmy Bivins W Wright Rolfe L Harrison Charles
    14 Archie Moore w Hall, Valdes, maxim & Others
    15 Coley Wallace W Gilliam McPherson L Charles
    16 Paul Andrews W Hall, Dula, Watson & Others
    17 Bob Dunlap W McFalls L Andrews
    18 Bob Satterfield W Baker & Others
    19 Clarence Henry W Baker & Pembleton
    20 Bob Baker W Brion, Valdes, Gilliam L Satterfield Henry
    21 Cesar Brion W Carbajel & others L Baker
    22 Floyd Patterson - W Bascon Wallace & Others
    23 Bob Amos - W Wallace Wright Bascom L Toxie Hall Pre rank
    24 Wes Bascom - W Smith L Charles Harrison Bucceroni Patterson Amos

    Jersey Joe Walcott finishes in his last year as the no 2 ranked fighter which is a good result.

    Interesting to see Don Cockell who had been around the 20s burst into the top 5. Cockell is often criticised as a Marciano opponent, but with Walcott sitting at no 2 and retiring, cockell is technically the next best credentialled fighter.

    The Butcher Boy Dan Bucceroni put together a pretty good undefeated streak this year to sit himself just outside the top 10.

    Good to see a young Floyd Paterson starting to work his way into the top 25.

    Rocky Marciano has beaten, or will beat 7 of the top 10 lineal contenders. That is a pretty good level of dominance, it seems. plus there is also Archie Moore as well how is not far off the top 10 and who seems to be one of the more succesful fringe contenders.
     
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  10. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1954

    1 Rocky Marciano W Ezzard Charles
    2 Don Cockell WMathews X2 & La Starza
    3 Harry Mathews W Burnett, L Cockell D X 2
    4 Charlie Norkus W Nardico, Brion Powell Jackson L Jackson (pre rank)
    5 Roland La Starza W L Cockell, Norkus Mederos
    6 Earl Walls - W Harrison, beshore Romero L Harrison Romero
    7 Edgardo Romero -W Walls L Neuhaus (pre rank)
    8 Floyd Patterson W Durelle Maxim Harrison Slade & Others
    9 Harrison - W Walls L Walls Patterson
    10 Bob Baker - W Hall Wallace Slade L Moore (pre rank)
    11 Jimmy Slade - W Henry Jackson L Baker Patterson
    12 Tommy Jackson W Layne Henry Bucceroni Norkus L Slade Valdes
    13 Rex Layne W Freidrich Bean & Others L Jackson D Neuhaus
    14 Nino Valdes - W Sys Jackson & Others
    15 Archie Moore- Maxim, baker, Whitehurst Johnson Bake
    16 Paul Andrews Johnson Nardico Durelle Smith L Maxim (Pre Rank)
    17 Oakland Billy Smith W Bean Johnson & Others L Andrews
    18 Harold Johnson W Slade, Williams, Andrews L Moore Smith
    19 Ezzard Charles W Satterfield L Marciano (X2)
    20 Heinz Neuhause W Bucceroni Romero & others D Layne
    21 Cesar Brion W Bucceroni Perez Newkirk L Norkus
    22 Dan Bucceroni - W hoff L Jackson Neuhaus Brion
    23 Jimmy Bivins No Fights

    A little surprising that although Ezzard Charles is generally considered a good title defence for Rocky, Technically he was barely a top 20 fighter on a lineal basis. So may be the two wins are not as great as I have always given him credit for.

    Don Cockell could hardly have done much more than beat the number 2 contender (mathews) 3 times and the number 3 contender La Starza. He definitely earned his spot more than what he is generally given credit for.

    Floyd Patterson moves into the top 10 with a win over Harrison.

    Heinz Neuhaus seems to be on the verge of a breakthrough to the top 10 but hasn’t quite managed to get the win at the right time. Maybe a little Unlucky.

    Full Credit to Earl Walls. He lost twice but managed to avenge both losses and stay in the top 10.

    Harold Johnson had a good year with some good wins including a win over Marty Marshall who was on the verge of getting some top 20 wins and who himself had just beaten Sonny Liston but his run was stopped by Archie Moore and Oakland Billy smith.
     
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  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    To think Cokkell was technically more legitimate than Valdes!
     
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Good old Charlie Norkus had a great year.
     
  13. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It actually puts a bit of a new perspective on the two in some ways. Yes, Valdes stopped Cockell, though it was on cuts and not a KO and Cockell did not win a fight after Marciano, so it may be his confidence was shot (and this systems shows and almost proves time and time again just how important confidence is and how fighters can move up and down levels). Cockell, so far at least, seems to have a better record than Valdes against slightly better ranked fighters. Valdes got a few opportunities to step it up but seemed to lose each time.

    One of the ones who really surprised me in the way he has struggled to go through the ranks (as well as Valdes) was Bob Satterfield. He wasnt really able to get any sort of dominance among the top 10 to 20 brigade.
     
  14. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Norkus has a solid rise through the rankings and looks to be in good (though not unbeatable) firn against the top 10 to 25 bracket, it will be interesting to follow how things go in the next couple of years as their looks like their might be a bit of a changing of the guard.

    It really is refreshing just how often the top 10 to 25 fighters actually fought in these days. I am not sure when this trend will change, but i get the feeling that i will be lucky to even fill 25 contender spots, by the time i get to 2018 as noone seems to fight each other anymore.
     
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  15. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Yes, it’s almost unbelievable how many rated guys fought each other back then. I guess the fighters today would relish the opportunity- but it would seriously effect their records and longevity.