Linear heavyweight champions and being the best in the world.

By and large I agree.

Willard beating Johnson is one i'm unsure about the more I consider it. It could be argued the coloured championship > world championship up until dempsey flattened willard.

Baer and Tyson were both unquestionably the best hw's in the world when they were defeated so i'd class their conquer as the best.

Ingo sparked machen and then floyd, he was clearly the best. Very few men have demolished the top contender and then the champ with such ease.

 

I can't wait to here something along the lines of Mcvey and Langford where better than Johnson and would have beat.

I'd certainly disagree with ingo (like lufcrazy). I'd also argue that maybe Marciano was better than Walcott at the time of Walcott-Charles III or IV

 

I did think that myself, but it'd be based on hypothetical talent and since the two never fought it's too much of a leap of faith. Ingo smashed Machen to take number 1 spot (so he was a higher ranked contender) then he smashed Floyd to take the championship. I'm happy with him being above him.

As for Willard, Had it been as simple as Wills knocking out Same and then not losing again until Sharkey I'd probably go along with it but basically by 1915 Langford-McVey-Jeannette-B Johnson were all losing to each other and Wills didn't really begin his great streak for a couple more years when he beat Langford in 1918 and didn't lose again for many years. So I'd probably keep willard on top.

 

This is how I see it Stevie. With hindsight on our sides, I don't think it's debatable.

 

No rahman knocked lewis spark out. His place as top hw is concrete imo.

 

Prety on the money.

It could be argued that Peter Jackon was the best heavyweight in the world when Corbett won he title.

Jack Sharkey was the best in the world when Max Schmeling won the title, and ironicaly, Schmeling was better by the time Sharkey won the title.

 

Johnson was certainly better when he won the title, but what you don't seem to get your head around, is the matter that he declined dramaticaly after the Jeffries fight.

 

Why is Jimmy Ellis left out...Ali wasn't even fighting at that time Ellis won the title....and Frazier realized this, and refused to participate in the tourney.

Plus, Liston wasn't even asked to the Tourney.... most people thought he could beat all of them (with Ali retired).

 

Ellis < Frazier infact
Ellis < Floyd

 

Ellis beat Floyd (fact) .....Frazier ducked 8 fighters (Durham "We will fight the winner"), plus Liston, who Durham wanted no part of.

 

Have you seen the ellis and floyd fight?

And frazier didn't duck them, he did indeed fight the winner and did indeed knock him spark out.

Liston? Meh after his shambolic losing efforts to ali i'm not surprised he never got a shot at anyone again.