on a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the greatest), rate the greatness of a win vs a clearly past-prime fighter. i'll start with these: marciano-louis - 5 holmes-ali - 2 johnson-jeffries - 4 list others you can think of and how you rate them. the analogy i use when an "old" or "shot" great fighter gets defeated is to compare it to sleeping with a beautiful woman. for example, there's a big difference in sleeping with elizabeth taylor when she was 25 and then when she was 70. same with fighters. big difference in beating ali at 28 and then at 38. my comparison probably says a lot about me.
Marciano-Louis- 7 1/2. Louis was the # 2 rated heavyweight contender, and was very active having won 8 fights in a row prior to the Marciano fight. How in the world does Jeffries-Johnson compare to that? Jeffries was non rated, and hadn't fought in 6 years.
Spinks-Holmes 8 Spinks-Holmes (II) 8.5 Although not at his best, Holmes would fight and continue to put in good performances for a further 7-8 years at the top level. He came trained and ready for the rematch looking to knock Spinks out and still lost on points. Exceptional win.
Frazier-Ali 10 This is the greatest one of all time if you buy that Ali had slipped as a fighter significantly from his pre-exile self as many do. Of course Ali still had an enourmous amount left and would go on to become a legend but in the parameters of this thread it fits imo.
Surely the best ever was Frankie Randall vs Julio Cesar Chavez 1. It was patently a declined, faded Chavez as compared to his mid-late 80s pomp, as proven by the way he wilted in the last third of the twelve rounds, but was obviously still an incredible win because JCC had never suffered an official loss before, because he'd go on to have some more good wins/performances later, and because Randall fought so brilliantly on the night.
i guess one reason i rated it a 5 is that it's sad to watch. it easy to see louis would have dealt with rocky if he'd been in his prime. joe was having some success even past his best. johnson deserves some credit for beating jeffries just on how big the occasion was. it is still amazing to me that johnson was not killed because of that fight. with the riots that ensued around the country, i can't believe someone didn't go after jack.
Um, not it's not. No fighter in history would have an easy time with Rocky Marciano, Louis included. Louis would tell you that himself. I would still pick a prime louis to win by knockout Not at all. It was a good fight. Louis came into the fight in good shape, and won 3 of the first 5 rounds. Both fighters took some big punishment, but Marciano really brought his A game, and completely took louis apart late, and knocked him out cold like no one had ever done before. Marciano was the young hungry underdog, and Louis was the crafty powerful veteran who was thirsty for one more promised title shot. It was an important fight, not a sad one. Once again your comparisons are way off. Louis- # 2 rated in the world. Won 8 fights in a row. Jeffries- Non rated. Had not fought in 6 years.
very funny It still doesn't eliminate the fact your comparison of Louis in the Marciano fight to Jeffries of the Johnson fight was a terrible one
Not mentioned as much as I think it should be but tarver knocking out jones. The way jones pulled out the final third in the first fight, the rematch should have been a formality and judging from the first round, it would be. Two factors strike me about the ko: 1 is that jones couldn't avoid the punch and 2 is that he couldn't recover. Maybe an elite level lhw catches prime jones like that, but antonio magic man certainly doesn't.
Jeffries Jackson was as good as could be given the poor condition of Jackson - 9 Corbett Sullivan - No chances taken and a masterful performance - 9 Jeffries - Fitzsimmons - Jeffries nearly lost it 3 Tunney - Dempsey I - Could tunney have been any more impressive? - 10 Ali - Liston - if it qualifies, is probably the most impressive yet total domination - 10
