List Joe Louis's 10 best wins, in order

This is all well and good, but when it was put to you that Corbett would have beaten Jeffries if their first fight was over 20 rds.That Johnson would have retained his title if his defence against Willard was over 20 rounds you said no!
That both Willard and Jeffries would have adjusted the pace of their fights accordingly over the shorter distances.
You can't have your cake and eat it too ,despite what Bob Dylan says!

 

Considering Louis hadn't even been boxing proffesionaly for a year when he beat Carnera and some are putting this victory in the lower half of their top 10 or exempting him completely, I'd say it suggests the complete opposite. I do have Louis over Ali though, so I would say that

 

That might well be the best win accomplished by any heavyweight, just nine months into their professional career.

 

A true sign of greatness. Take your chance the first time, because once he knows what you're about, you're done

 

"Conn was ahead, and would have beaten Louis in a modern 12 round fight."

But it wasn't a 12 round fight, so Louis was naturally pacing himself for 15 rounds. I don't think this "if the fight were fewer rounds X would have won" thesis is really a good argument. The man might have paced himself differently. This is also true of Jeff against Corbett or Willard against Johnson. They went in knowing the number of rounds.

Walcott was only slightly ahead on the cards, and if he had been saved by the bell in the 11th, I think the two would have been about even. Louis certainly might have won a decision.

Carnera--I don't think there is any evidence he was "past" it when Louis KO'd him.

Buddy Baer--tough enough to kill a bull with his bare hands and did it on film and in Technicolor. I am suspicious that the bull took a dive, though.

 

How was carnera at age 28 past it? His biggest supporters point to his TKO over Walter Neusel as one of his finest performances. This happened AFTER the louis fight

How was schmeling past his prime? He has his best years in 35 and 36 and showed no signs of slowing down in 37

 

Absolutely, although I think it was more like a year. The only win that comes close that I can think of is Spinks over Ali.

 

Once again round by round by round reports suggest the fight was close to even. Had it been 20 rounds, don’t you think Jeffires would have picked up his pace sooner than round 17?

Willard and johnson were scheduled for 45 rounds. Had it been 20 rounds the pacing would have been different.

The differnce with Louis vs Conn is only one round! Had it been 12, Conn wins. Or if Conn had sense he boxes and takes it on points.

 

Nice try Ed.

Pacing had nothing to do with Conn vs Louis result. Neither fighter was tired and Louis was trying his best. Conn was simply too fast and after staggering Louis in round 12 unwittingly went for a finish in roynd 13.

If it was only 12 rounds nothing changes unless you think louis fakes bring hurt in round 11 to draw Conn in for the 12. Louis was hurt by a light hitting sub 172 pound ( i posted the info on the weight in another thread. ) man.

We are talkng about a one round differnce here, not 5 or 14!

 

I have the round by round scoring of the first Jeffries v Corbett fight.I have the referees opinion and Brady, Jeffries managers opinion. Between the 16th and 17th rds Brady got up on the ring apron tossed Ryan out of the corner and told Jeffries he was losing his title and had to ko Corbett to keep it.
You are just reinforcing my post!
Had it been 12 rds Louis might have attacked with greater urgency ,how successful he would have been is a moot point.
My point is you are making double standards to fit your agenda accepting them when it suits,ie Louis would have lost over 12 rds dismissing them when it doesn't Willard v Johnson, Jeffries v Corbett. It's not only dishonest ,its rather funny to see.

 

Schmelimg was considered past his best for Louis fight. While i think he preformed well, thats what i read and heard.

Carnera was awful. Louis himself said he had nothing. Carnera had gland issues, very much like other giants who often mature very quickly.

If Carnera was mob controlled, is there a chance he tanked one or two for the gamblers? Maybe. Fixes can work both ways.

Age is just one part if the prime equation. See bowe or Tyson. Or Frazier.

 

Dude. If it was 20 rounds don’t you think Brady says the same thing earlier? Say the 13th round?

If he said it after 18 in a 25 round match he would say it after 13 in 20 round match too. That us using fair numbers. Try it someting.

1 round vs 5 or 14 left rounds left? Hardly the same thing and you know it. Look who has to use large numbers in a bad attempt to make a point!

Finally neither Johnson or Corbett put themself into position to get stopped.

Conn did!

Double standards you say? You are the king of them. Note I used your example and served it back without return.

 

You defeated your own argument ,quite a feat!

 

Hard to me to see the big difference between Jeff stopping Corbett in the 23rd of a 25 round fight, and Louis stopping Conn in the 13th of a 15 round fight.

We know the official scores of the Louis-Conn fight, so we know Louis would have been very close after the 13th if the bell saved Conn, and would have had a good chance of winning on points.

"Louis was hurt by a light hitting sub 172 pound man."

Not all that badly off the film. Louis was just stunned. And I go by 174 as that was the actual announced weight and is actually light compared to what Conn was fighting at in other fights at the time.

"Conn put himself in a position to be knocked out."

Anyone who gets into the ring does that. Louis said it best. "He can run but he can't hide."

 

Jeffries was slightly ahead if you score by NY times round by round, and since you like the modern scoring system, Jeffries gets one 10-8 knockdown I think in the 17th or 19th.

My point if this was a 12 round fight, we know the winner, as Louis could not catch up to Conn until Conn went for the stoppage in the 13th. He did not need to do that.

Conn said "Why couldn't you let me hold the title for a year or so?", to which the Brown Bomber responded, "You had the title for twelve rounds ."

If Corbett vs. Jeffries was 20 rounds or 15, its a completely different fight in terms of the pacing and when Jeffries ups the ante. Corbett did not try to slug with Jeffries. Conn did Louis the ultimate favor by doing so. There is the difference. Jeffries got the KO with Corbett being smart and trying to run when the tide was clearly turned agains this. Conn had all the momentum, and foolishly gave it to Louis by going toe to toe.

Conn was listed at 174; there is a clear story he was under 170, as reported here. Whether he was 168 or 174, does it really matter Ed? Conn was anything but a puncher...yet he staggered the champion. This is why I think Louis has a slim chance vs Holmes or Ali, as they were not only larger, but hit MUCH harder than Conn and had far better chins.