List your Top 5 Boxers Of All Time

Yep. The best fighters are heavyweights because in reality they would beat all the fighters from the lower weights in a boxing match in the ring so that gotta mean they are the best fighters.As good as your choices are, you think Leonard, Hagler or Chavez would beat any of my 5 choices in a real boxing match?

 

That's a very odd way of determining greatness when putting the entire sport into perspective. Of course heavyweights would prevail against the lower weights, but would you consider, say, Larry Holmes greater than Sugar Ray Robinson in terms of overall wins or longevity? Those are far better qualities to determine one's greatness, in my opinion.

 

You do know that Armstrong struggled with a fat, washed up Midget Wolgast and was beaten by Fritzie Zivic, right?

 

I rank fighters based on actual skills and accomplishment, not anything else:

Top 5 in order:
Greb
Duran
Pep
McFarland
Canzoneri

H.M. any order
Walker
Jofre
Lomachenko
Leonard, B
Robinson

 

You have Lomachenko listed who never beat a HOF fighter in his career. Muhammad Ali beat 8 Hall of Fame fighters in his career. Lomachenko never beat a worthy opponent who wasn't tiny. When he stepped up in competition he was destroyed by Lopez and Salido.

 

Armstrong gave Wolgast a beating.

 

You are really comparing Ali to Lomachenko!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

McDonald's has served BILLIONS. El Bulli maybe served 8K diners a year, and was forced to close for being a financial sieve.

I am sure you would love to tell me how McDonald's is the better restaurant for just that reason, right?

Maybe give the Happy Meals a break, kid. They're clogging your brain.

If you are new to Boxing, this is what Lomachenko looks like on film.... you'll notice he never uses smelling salts to survive against any bums:

This content is protected

Now, show me Highlights of Joe Frazier looking that good! You don't know who Joe Frazier is? Well, son, that's the man who WHOOPED Ali's ass when Mo as at his zenith. Can't make an ATG list when you have been beat at your best.

 

It was a back and forth. yes, Armstrong got the better of it... except when Wolgast actually fought back. An important caveat, we can all agree.

 

Clearly, you're an advertisement for Planned Parenthood.

Is this really a Boxing forum? How do people get away with this craziness?

 

Lomachenko lost to a washed gatekeeper and then go Teofimo Lopez.

Muhammad never lost to people on that level in his prime.

 

He literally sniffed smelling salts to survive Henry Cooper's left hook. Not a left hook to the balls. To the chin. Lomachenko has never been floored by a dude that bad. he hasn't even fought anyone that bad.

You know who else floored Ali? Frazier!

When has Lomachenko been floored by a smaller dude? When has Lomachenko fought someone as limited as Frazier. He walked through Lopez's power shots. Never saw him struggle with anyone as limited as Frazier.

Watch Frazier-Foreman and tell me the last time your saw a Lightweight champion get handled that easy.

I really cannot believe we are comparing Lomachenko to someone so limited.

I guess you guys really think your Big Macs are better than the plates being served at Michelin starred restaurants?

Shows why companies invest so heavily in marketing. It works.

 

I am still waiting for the footage of Ali doing anything like we see from Lomachenko in the footage above. Maybe it was in the Doug Jones fight? Maybe the Mildenberger fight? How about the fight with Spinks? I bet Ali did some amazing stuff there!

 

Crolla, Koasicha, Ramirez and Nakatani are all clearly worse than Cooper. Cooper wasn't some nobody. He was an actual contender and had a few good wins along the way. Being dropped by him at 21 means what? That he's a bum? How did he go onto beat Liston and Foreman then if he needed smelling salts to get past Henry Cooper?

It means nothing, one day you'll realise the positives always out-weigh the negatives, because if the negatives were indicative of the fighter, the positives would never have had happened.

He's literally never fought anyone as good

We must've been watching two different fights because I saw Lomachenko ***** out and fight on the back-foot for six rounds, then when he tried to fight on the front-foot, he wasn't nearly as aggressive as normal. When he really tried to up his game in the last round, he almost got knocked out.

Hardly walked through his shots to great effect, now did he?

You should watch him fight Salido then...

This content is protected

This content is protected

This content is protected

There's three and it literally took me about twenty seconds to think of them.

Furthermore, you are aware of the idea of pound-for-pound, right? Y'know you're supposed to be equal to each fighter and judge them by their own weight's standards, not others. Lomachenko fights between 126-135 doesn't mean Muhammad Ali should be held to those same standards. By this logic, you should be comparing everyone to Jimmy Wilde or Miguel Canto.

I really can't believe you're comparing Ali to someone so unproven.

I really can't believe you think Ali was limited.

You should stop using analogies like this. They don't make sense, and you sound like a wanker.

Oh, the irony.

This is coming from someone so heavily bought into the Lomachenko hype, that even a year after he lost to an even more unproven fighter, you're still calling him one of the greatest of all-time and saying he's better than Muhammad Ali.

Lomachenko has nothing on Ali's record. And even if Lomachenko's style is more aesthetically pleasing than Ali's, that doesn't make it better. Lomachenko would never beat a fighter as freakish as George Foreman.

 

Hahahahahaha! Don't say things like this if you want to be taken seriously. Oh man. Wow. I need a minute after reading this.

Good Lord.

Ok

No wait....

Ok, I think now I am ready. Damn.

If you had seen the Liston fight, you'll see he struggled at moments. Liston was past his prime, and pretty predictable. For Angelo this one was dialed in. He had already lead Pastrno to a win over Johnson the year before. Liston struggled mightily to cut off the ring, and if Ali had two advantages it was size and mobility. Liston had also struggled to put away the much smalled Eddie Machen - something Ingo had done in 1 round. No one was confusing Machen for Ali. Liston would later make the mistake of calling out Quarry. And then repeatedly dodging Quarry when Jerry came looking to collect.

Ali was highly experienced when he met Foreman. I consider this Ali's finest performance, but it's not ATG in terms of skill. Heart and endurance BY THE STANDARDS OF A BIG MAN, yes. But not skill. You cannot rope-a-dope at Lightweight. Hell, you cannot do it at Heavyweight any more. Foreman was far less experienced, and had never been in the ring with a man his own size.

I cannot think of anything worse than getting repeatedly punched in the balls in your second pro-fight by a dude 20% larger than you. You clearly have never been in a fight if you think anything Salido did was fair or unimpactful. He should have been DQ'd - on SEVERAL occasions. Even still, the fouling and the gross weight disparity weren;t enough to keep him from almost getting KO'd. This was in a 12 rd fight with 10oz. gloves.

Ali had 4 oz gloves and struggled to stop little Karl Mildenberger. But hey, give Ali a pass, that was just his second pro fight, and Mildenberger was fouling him.

Oh wait....

No you were watching the same fight. It's just that everything that was going on went over your head.

Loma thought he'd play matador as he often does. TBF to Loma, Lopez is a bit of an unknown product. Very little footage to work from. It was assumed he would charge in and try to bully the smaller Lomachenko. He didn't he boxed very well. The body shots were clearly effective, but Loma held onto the idea that Lopez would eventually go on the offensive.

Once Loma realized he needed to step on the gas he absolutely was putting the much larger Lopez on the back foot and walking through his shots.

Lopez surged in the final round, and probably the body shots had taken their toll. But once Loma pressed the action, he was winning clearly. Andre Ward, a dude who knows a little bit about Boxing, had it a draw. Lopez has absolutely refuesed a rematch.

Now compare that to Earnie Shavers turning Ali into a bobble head. The same Earnie Shavers that little Jerry Quarry KO'd in ONE ROUND.

Ali never fought anyone bigger than himself. Good thing, because we saw what a little guy like Henry Cooper could do. Uncle Angelo could bring a whole bath tub of salts to the ring, wouldn't save Ali against dudes like Wlad and Wilder.

Well... those are TITLE fights, not championships. And even those dudes show more depth of skill than Frazier. Are they as talented? No, but the they are more technically sound and complete fighters. None are former CHAMPIONS.

Where is Frazier's right and? Where is his lateral movement? Why is he so slow to start? Why is his head-movement so susceptible to uppercuts? Why is he letting himself get pushed around?

THIS IS THE GUY WHO BEAT YOUR ALI?

Notice I didn't mention how Bonavena dropped Joe, or how Quarry was hustling joe before gassing.

Oh of course! How could I forget!? P4P means whatever George Crowcrfot means it to be, and nothing else matters! How silly of me to have forgotten!

P4P means who is best regardless of size. It has meant that for hundreds of years. Long before Boxing was a real sport the term was being used. It had nothing to do with Boxing until the media decided to use it. It applies to fighting dogs and cocks, only weirdos on the internet get worked up about it when they need to defend their heroes.

Lomachenko is far more skilled than Ali. That's apparent from just watching footage. He is more accomplished having almost every one of his professional fights be a title fight. And he actually fights men much larger, rather than much smaller, than himself. It doesn't get more exhaustive than that.

I have given you tons of attention. That's all for now. Hopefully you feel better about yourself. I definitely got a kick out of some of the stuff you said.

 

Best.
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Joe Louis
3. Roberto Duran
4. Jose Napoles
5. Pernell Whittaker

Greatest
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Harry Greb
4. Ezzard Charles
5. Muhammad Ali / Sam Langford / Joe Louis