Liston-Ali II / fix or no fix?

Sonny went down fast, as per orders.

Here they were,

A) Don't let this fight go any longer than it has to.

B) As soon as he lands something, go down and stay down.

C) I don't want Clay to get as much as a 'scratch'.

D) Don't touch him, and for God's sake don't hit him.

E) We'll worry about making an excuse after the fight.

 

Ali "fixed" Liston in the first fight, like a veterinarian fixes any tomcat. So, I guess you could say this was "still fixed".

 

if this is a gamblers coup then the winner is not likely involved in the fix, why would you tell anyone else it means you get lower odds.

if dundee believed they couldn't win then perhaps he did manage to influence liston. but i have only ever encounterd this situation in the lower level of sports where the loser needs income, or in match situations where the result is irrelevant to the loser.(late season soccer games ect)

there is also a small chance the entire thing was scripted, but v small

and maybe it wasn't a fix at all. i move on tennis a lot and that sport is so corrupt it may have made me a conspiracy nut

 

The whole community of Cassius Clay was in on it.

No, Cassius Clay could not defeat an in-shape Sonny Liston in 1964 or 1965, despite his 37 and 38 years of age.

In 1966, Clay came into his own, and Sonny was 39 years old in February,
but an in-shape Sonny would have gone 15-Rounds in a losing cause.

 

I believe the fight was fixed. I dont think Ali had anything to do with the fix. He was there to win. No blame on Ali at all.

After the fight there is video of Ali asking his brother "did I hit him?" over and over again. I think if you hit a guy well enough to drop him like that you woud have felt it. Common sense.

 

This is a contradiction.

 

Oh.........the feeling of boredom that always sweeps over me when these and the Foreman fight get labelled as fixed ! :-(


And I'm not just saying this because I'm an Ali fan,either.

 

This is IT ! Liston was intimidated and gave up. Pure and simple.

 

ali was making liston look slow and outclassed once again and he quit. no fix, liston quit on his own - he took the easy payday and stayed down. ali was saying get up you no good bum! ali knew bullies are cowards and quit when they're put up against the better man. liston didn't get a chance to use his eye solution in the rematch. i wonder why he never got investigated for it after all the times he tried it in his tough fights lol.

 

Indeed, after all the **** Ali said and did, he got under his skin before the first fight even happened. Sonny realized he couldn't beat him in the first fight and quit on his stool, then he comes back and gets dropped in the first round. People don't take into perspective what thoughts were in Liston's head when he hit the canvass. He knew it was over and wanted to get they hell out of there, that's why he flopped around waiting on Joe to count him out. And I don't care who you are, if you get caught with a fast straight right hand while lunging toward someone and it connects right on the chin, right one the perfect spot, you will hit the ground.


And to everyone saying it was a fix and Ali was in on it shame on you. Say what you will about Dundee's tactics, he was known to have some tricks up his sleeve, but don't attempt to tarnish their reputation by suggesting they was in on this supposed fix.

 

Just re-watched the fight. A couple of things I noticed...

* Ali had the pull counter working long before the final punch. He drills Liston with it a couple of times during the first minute, and appears to momentarily stun him on one of those occasions.

* Liston doesn't exactly seem all that 'with it' when he finally rises and the fight resumes. In fact, he looks pretty shaky as Ali tees off on him and drives him into the ropes. Had Nat Fliesher not intervened, I could very easily see him taking a knee to avoid shipping further punishment.

* Ali looked ****ing beastly in that fight, and there was no way that any version of Liston was probably going to be able to hang with him at that point. He just seemed to have the way to fight a guy like Liston down to an exact, and somewhat painful science.

 

No fix.

Maybe liston quit, his mentality does have a huge question mark about it.

Poor refereeing.

 

I voted "I don't know".

Three things to note IMO:

1. The KD looks legit. Not a hard punch, but Liston looks off balance and you can actually see him trying to break his fall spontanenously with his gloves. Not something you would do if the fall was planned. Then it should have looked smoother.

2. Liston rolling around on the floor doesn't look convincing at all. Looks like he's play-acting.

3. He actually beats the count. If he wants to take a dive, he defeats his purpose right there.

 

Quit job, but not a fix