Liston and Ali: the Ugly Bear and the Boy Who Would Be King by Bob Mee.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Robbi, May 13, 2011.


  1. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Just emailed, Thomas Hauser, who wrote 'Muhammad Ali - His Life and Times', and a few years ago released 'The Lost Legacy of Muhammad Ali'. Hauser, he's been on lots of television documentaries over the years involving Ali. I'm sure most knowledgeable boxing heads on here certainly know all about him.

    Anyway. I asked him what books he recommends on Ali, obviously outwith the ones he wrote. His reply "Liston and Ali, by Bob Mee".

    I have also discovered a good audio interview with Bob Mee talking about the book. He says, "I thought I knew everything about Liston and Ali and the background of their fights, like everyone else. I discovered, I only knew about 30% of it all". Apparently, he's discovered a few nuggets.

    Here is the audio link below. It's youtube style and will load in automatically.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeij2e_bob-mee-on-liston-and-ali-the-ugly_sport

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    Liston and Ali: The Ugly Bear and the Boy Who Would Be King (Bob Mee)

    Sport can offer catharsis in times of crisis, but not this time. Liston was a mob fighter with a criminal past, and rumours were spreading that Clay was not just a noisy, bright-eyed boy blessed with more than his share of the craziness of youth, but a believer in a shadowy cult: the Nation of Islam. Instead of a hero and a villain, boxing had served up two bad guys. Against this backdrop of political instability, of a country at war with itself, in a time when ordinary African American people were still being maimed and killed for the smallest acts of defiance, Liston and Clay sought out their own individual destinies. "Liston and Ali" follows the contrasting paths these two men took, from their backgrounds in Arkansas and Kentucky through to that sixteen-month period in 1964 and 1965 when the story of the world heavyweight championship centred on them and all they stood for. Using original source material, it explores a riveting chapter in sporting history with fresh insight and in rare detail.


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    Bob Mee is the boxing analyst and commentator for Eurosport TV. He has previously written on boxing for the Daily Telegraph, the Independent on Sunday and Boxing News. His other books include The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Boxing, The Heavyweights and Bare Fists.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I got to disagree with you. I thought there was very, very little there that was new or exciting. I would have said that it was pretty pedestrian for anyone whose read widely about Ali and Liston. That's obviously not true as you clearly enjoyed it - or maybe you haven't read it? If not, skip it.

    For Ali, I like Ghosts of Manilla and The Fight.
     
  3. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    NICE! Thanks for the info. Getting this book is a must.
     
  4. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    I haven't read it, McGrain. Never said I did, either. Just asked Hauser what Ali books he recommends and he said that one.
     
  5. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Would you care to share a list all the books you have on Ali as well as Liston? Thanks McGrain.
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Awww, naw man i couldn't begin to.

    You can't really go that far wrong with Liston. Night Train is a beauty but it's a bit "purple" for some and he has some strange material in there but it gets very close to the "essence" of Sonny Liston. The Devil And Sonny Liston is the same book under a different name.

    For something a little more straight up, there's nothing at all wrong with this:

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    VERY sensible, and if you have both this and Night Train you are getting the legend and what was in the newspapers in pretty comprehensive style.



    I shold just add that the Mee book is actually really strong on the Ali-Liston fight that never was, the cancelled one. There is some interesting detail about that in there so it might be worth it for sick die-hards.

    Other than that, pedestrian if sincere.
     
  7. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    I think, Hauser, is the top man for Ali material. I actually got the 'Lost Legacy of Muhmmad Ali' a week or so ago, which is material he wrote, post 91, after 'Muhammad Ali - His Life and Times'. And, Hauser actually has an article in that book where he picks apart 'Ghosts of Manila'.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't like Hauser for Ali. Two fingers of his pen hand are in Ali's ******* whilst he's working which makes his books difficult to read.

    But he's huge, and to each his own.
     
  9. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Thanks McGrain!
     
  10. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I agree, he wants Ali's ****, every interview even is just so biased. Nothing wrong with that, but it's **** when you're writing about him and you're like that.
     
  11. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    did i just say theres nothing wrong with wanting Ali's ****?
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah.

    I mean he's very talented and everything, but he buys the Ali legend 100%, marks it up, sells it to you.


    :lol:
     
  13. teeto

    teeto Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Yeah, I love reading books which are balanced, like they glorify the man but then give you some brutal truth too, ya dig?
     
  14. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    I still think the best boxing book I have is, 'McIlvanney on boxing'. He's out on his own when reviewing or previewing a fight. So many American journalists rate him very highly too.

    'The genius of McIlvanney is his ability to magnify and precisely delineate those elements of sport which contain fundamental truths about the human condition.' Scotsman.

    'McIlvanney on Boxing shows just how enduring good sports journalism can be.' Independent

    'Essential reading.' Sunday Times

    'Anyone who admires writing as muscular as it is graceful should buy this book.' Daily Telegraph

    'Gritty, passionate prose.' The Observer.

    Journey from Muhammad Ali to Mike Tyson and most points in between – that is the incredible journey undertaken and chronicled in breathtaking depth by Hugh McIlvaney. Perhaps only two other domestic boxing writers – not boxing reporters – capable of producing such a definitive document which demands reading, are former Boxing News Editor Harry Mullan and Fleet Street’s Ken Jones. But even they would be hard-pushed to match Mcllvaney on Boxing, published by Mainstream. The Ali lows and highs, plus wonderful insights into Joe Frazier – “a pleasant, admirable man”, Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard, Oscar De La Hoya, Roy Jones, our own Barry McGuigan , Lloyd Honeyghan, Chris Eubank, Frank Bruno and a host of others. They’ve all had the McIlvaney treatment over the past 30 years in newspapers and magazines – and we challenge anyone to put this collection down to draw an ounce of breath.



    An excellent anthology of his newspaper articles and columns, McIlvanney has for the previous 35 years been a sports journalist writing for newspapers such as "The Scotsman", "The Observer" and the "Sunday Times", a regular winner of the award of Britains "Sports Writer of the Year" he has also won "Journalist of the Year".

    If anyone hasn't got this, get it.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's fantastic writing. Really good writing. I think he writes best about Buchanan. Journalism doesn't really cut it when you get to a certian level of interest (obsession) in the fights, but this is worth reading just for the very good writing I thought. I read it on the train/plane and it was perfect for that sort of thing, very cool.