Liston would have most likely dominated the 60s; Foreman, the 70s. Frazier probably would have emerged as "the man" in between, in the late 60s and early 70s.
I'm not sure if Frazier beats Liston in the late 60's. The way I see it, Liston keeps the title in the 1960's, which leads to a show down fight vs a young George Foreman in the early 1970's. Liston's legacy would have been HUGE if there was no Ali. I have little doubt he would crush guys like Folley, Mildenberger, Cooper, Terell, or anyone one else the young Ali beat from 1964-1967.
Liar- lair, pants on fire.:fire I never said this. I beleive Frazier should be rated above Norton. I did say the resume of wins between Frazier and Norton is very close if Norton was correctly given the decision over Ail in the 3rd fight. I dont want to go off on a tangent on Norton. I do believe Frazier was tailor made for Liston the same as he was for Foreman. Fraziers own camp had doubts about him beating Liston. They knew. When rating heavyweights I find it interesting to ponder the what if . What if Liston had come back to KO Frazier as the champion when Ali was in exile? In my opinion Liston's rating would have soared.
Liston, a fighter who was reported to be born in 1932 would be 38 years of age in 1970. 50 years old you say? Classic. I think Liston had something left in the late 1960's. His TKO win over Henry Clark in 1968 is perhaps Liston's most under rated win. Clark defeated Eddie Machen, Leoits Martin, Jeff Merrit, Mac Foster and Roy Williams.
True, but Liston did come back to stop Wepner. Sometimes guys get knocked out. If there was a re-match between Liston and Martin, I think Liston wins. He was in control of the fight, and had Martin down before Leotis landed the bomb. I saw nothing wrong with Liston's durability in any of his fights, save the Martin fight which is the only clear cut KO Liston had from punches in 54 ring appearances. Speaking of Martin, Frazier never fought him. There was some talk about an all Philly match between the two. Bonavena of course floored Frazier two times, and nearly knocked him out. The first Bonevena vs Frazier fight is a clean draw on the 10 point must system. Losing to Bonevenna or Ellis is no shame. I don't know much about McCoy though.
If we look at how many times Frazier was down, hurt or stunned, Liston TKO's Frazier. Check Wepner who fought both Foreman and Liston said Liston hit harder! And this was Liston's last fight. Smaller swamers with a battle plan is to go at bigger / stronger / more durable punchers lose almost every time. Do you really think Frazier beats Liston from 1967-1970?
Yep, i'm pretty sure he'd be beaten by someone due to lack of focuse and age long before Frazier would get to him in '69. Same for Foreman by the way.
Liston would've most likely been champ til about 68 or so. Liston losing to Martin was a nothing fight, he didn't have the desire. He would've kept winning if he had the title. A young and hungry Frazier would have beaten an aging Liston in 68, defending against the likes of Ellis, Martin, Quarry, M.Foster, Chuvalo, Cooper etc., until facing Foreman in late 70 or early 71, when Foreman would've been the number 1 challenger. (From memory, he was number 2 after Ali at the end of 70 anyway). Foreman would've crushed Frazier, then Norton. Followed by a match against Lyle, which would end earlier than their real match, with the focused Foreman (still with his invincible aura) performing much better than the post-Zaire Foreman of the Lyle fight. Foreman would take on all comers - including a massively hyped matchup with Ernie Shavers, which would end early for Earnie. He would reign until about 1977, when he gives a young Larry Holmes (ranked about 4th at the time) a shot. Larry beats the aging champion, and begins his reign earlier too.
Both guys were good but suseptable to certain styles, Liston had trouble with the boxer Marty Marshall(and he was not even close to being a great fighter and Foreman avoided the tough chinned Quarry,Bonavena...both men were good but beatable by certain styles...Liston was old but watch the Leotis Martin fight, when Leotis got up and fought back, Liston fizzled out and then was cold KO"D.....Foreman had the most padded record of all and he was exposed by Ali and then lighthitter Young after being wobbled and fighting back put Big George down...Young was a good fighter in his short rein, most felt he beat Ali and Ali avoided that rematch...Liston and Foreman were better than good fighters but the 70's are overated by most on this site
IF Liston had not lost to Ali, he would have beat any of the heavyweight contenders from 1964 to 1967. 1) Henry Cooper - Liston would bust him open and stop him early. 2) Cleveland Williams - threes a charm - Sonny KOS Williams again. 3) Zora Folley - Liston repeats with a KO. 4) Ernie Terrell - Terrell would try to use his height/reach but Sonny would break him down - Sonny by KO. 5) Karl Mildenberger - Sonny by KO. 6) George Chuvalo - Sonny would beat a tattoo on Chuvalo's face with his potent jab. Chuvalo's chin would keep him in the fight until the ref decides that Chuvalo has had enough. 7) Oscar Bonavena - By the time that this fight takes place, say 1967, Sonny might be a bit slower, but he would still be too tough for Oscar. Sonny by decision. 8) Jerry Quarry - Sonny would beat down and stop a determined Quarry. Jerry just didn't have enough power to take on Sonny. 9) Jimmy Ellis - Ellis would look to jab and move and sneak in some right hands. Sonny's jab would put a stop to that and Ellis would be whittled down by the middle rounds. Grebfan9 www.firstroundboxing.com
Larry and Foreman are the same age. Foreman is only 11 months older. Larry just started boxing when he was 17 years old, and didn't turn pro until 1973, when he was 23-24 years old. Here's how I see it: Liston reigns until about 1966 or so. Frazier is champ until Foreman gets him in 1973. After that Foreman is champ until 1977 or so, then Larry Holmes beats him convincingly, and is champ for 8 years instead of 7.
I have no idea why I said "aging champion", I knew that Foreman was still relatively young then. But yeah, 77 is what I thought too.