Liston and Louis switch eras

Schmeling beats Liston in '36, speedy technical boxers like Pastor and Ramage also have a solid chance of beating Liston before he comes into his own. Liston seemed to reach that point by 1958, so in this timeline he would be reaching his peak by '38-39. After that point, I see Liston dominating the division in a similar, if not more thorough way than Louis did.

Louis reaches the title picture much earlier than Liston did, he was much more formidable at a younger age. Louis did say the Max Baer fight was the best shape he'd ever been in after all, which was just one year into his career, and I'd pick the Louis of the Baer fight to destroy Marciano, Patterson or Ingo any day. Louis likely wins the title in '54 or '55 imo, and keeps it until fighting Ali in the early-to-mid 60s.

 

I think past-his-best Liston would stand a chance against Marciano due to his style advantage against swarming in-fighters. Against Charles, he loses. Against Walcott too, he mostly loses unless he finds a powerfully connecting jab. Also, Billy Conn would stand a chance to beat Liston in their second fight after Conn foolishly goes for the knockout in their first fight and loses. Louis could beat Conn by understanding and adapting to Billy's technique, Liston never changed his style of boxing in rematches (Williams and Ali fights prove it).

 

Sigh,,,learn about the sport and then I'll respond

 

I am going to start by saying that I don't think that Liston wins at the longevity game in any era, and I think that Louis was always going to enjoy very impressive longevity.

Even if there is not an Ali figure in Liston's era, he comes down to the level of the opposition eventually.

Even if Louis comes up against a champion that he can't beat, he becomes a Floyd Patterson type figure who you just can't seem to get to stay out of the top ten.

Obviously the big question mark is Ali.

If we put Louis in Liston's era, then sooner or later, he is going to run into Ali.

 

Can’t believe you didn’t go with the, “like a Policeman in a trash can,” line instead!

 

If he wins the tile when Louis did, then he is long gone by the time Walcott comes along.

 

Liston was very focused and disciplined, right up to the point when the belt closed round his waist, and then his discipline evaporated.

I don't think that he had it in him to be another Louis, and possibly not another Marciano either.

 

The only one who should learn more is you, because someone who lost against two bums ain't beating Marciano or any other ATG.

 

Right.

Actually Liston's alternative timeline would be kinda paired to Liston's real timeline.

Assuming Liston starts in 1934, by 1947-48 he would have been in the game 13 years when finally faces Walcott.

In real life, when Liston met Ali in 64 he had been fighting professionally 11 years and already showing some signs of decline.

The most I think about it, the better Walcott's chances look.

 

Frankly Liston could have ended up as an Elmer Ray figure.

The difference between Walcott and Ray, was that Walcott had a style suited to longevity, and Ray unfortunately didn't.

 

Sonny Liston: So Sonny, if he mimics the Joe Louis career, has to start fighting in 1934. I would guess he is going to take a loss sometime early in his career. possibly against Max Schmeling the first time, by decision. I see him going to the Braddock fight with one loss and winning the Lineal Heavyweight Championship then. I think he avenges his loss to Max Schmeling, as Joe Louis did, very convincingly, by knockout. I think, well into his 30's he loses to Jersey Joe Walcott by decision and then he avenges the loss in the rematch, by knockout, and becomes the first man to regain the Lineal World Heavyweight Title. He loses his title again to Ezzard Charles by decision, and there is no rematch. Sonny wins from there to the Marciano fight. So I will give him three losses going into the Rocky Marciano fight at an advanced age (for Sonny). At that point in his career, I think Sonny gives Rocky a lot of trouble early and may even knock the Rock down. Rocky gets up and fights on. Then, with Liston ahead on the cards, Sonny tires and Rocky knocks him out cold! That would be Sonny's fourth loss. And as Howard Cosell said after the Leotis Martin fight: "Thus ends the ring career of Charles Sonny Liston!"

Joe Louis: Joe, if he mimics Sonny Liston's career (implied) still begins around age 20 (according to the timeline above). I think chances are that Joe Louis goes into the Floyd Patterson fight undefeated, and wins the Lineal Heavyweight Championship. He wins the rematch and loses his title to Muhammad Ali by a decision. He wins a decision in the rematch and becomes the second man to regain the World Heavyweight Lineal title, with a close decision win. Following Sonny's schedule, there is no third fight. I think Joe goes on to win over the rest of the Liston schedule and retires with one loss.

 

I’ve already mentioned I don’t trust Liston to emulate Louis’ run due to discipline, but I will say, to be fair, in Louis’ timeline Liston gets the belt significantly earlier & younger than in his own. I expect a good few years, maybe split between two reigns, of Liston as champion. Not twelve, however, especially not unbroken.