Liston could have beaten all those before his time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BlackCloud, Nov 26, 2017.


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  1. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Not saying he definately would have but a prime and focused Liston, imo, should be no less than even odds against any Heavyweight before him.
    I'm not interested in the " quit on his stool " nonsense or lack of heart, i am only referring to the '58 - '61 version.
    The guy could box, brawl and handle it in close, and of course he had that jab.

    Thoughts?
     
    BlackCloud, Nov 26, 2017
    BlackCloud, Nov 26, 2017
    #1
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  2. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I would make him less than even odds against Joe Louis at least.
     
    janitor, Nov 26, 2017
    janitor, Nov 26, 2017
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  3. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    How about the others?
     
    BlackCloud, Nov 26, 2017
    BlackCloud, Nov 26, 2017
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  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Biggest danger would be Louis imo.
     
    JohnThomas1, Nov 26, 2017
    JohnThomas1, Nov 26, 2017
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  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    You could make a good case for making him favorite over all the others.

    He would have stylistic advantages over guys like Dempsey and Marciano, and there are too many unknowns about guys like Jeffries to install them as favorites with any confidence.

    That leaves the cuties such as Tunney and Walcott, whose records don't really justify installing them as favorites.
     
    janitor, Nov 26, 2017
    janitor, Nov 26, 2017
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  6. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I'd only make Louis favorite in a trilogy. Liston to win the 1st.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Nov 26, 2017
    swagdelfadeel, Nov 26, 2017
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  7. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    An honest an plausable synopsis, much appreciated.
     
    BlackCloud, Nov 26, 2017
    BlackCloud, Nov 26, 2017
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  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Nobody could beat everyone before their time.

    I supposes you could argue that someone could be made a favourite over everyone before their time.

    Personally, I don't think Liston's that man, but he could beat Louis and lose to Tunney (don't think either of these things would happen - but they could). In other words, very dangerous to gamble on him with any of the top boys.

    Marciano's a different argument; i could bet on him comfortably to beat a certain standard of great fighter before him (if you get what i mean by that) and would be equally confident in betting against him. Sure i'd get one or two wrong because I always do.

    Of course, the guy most likely to beat everyone who came before him, for me, is Johnson - but there wasn't that much before him.

    Ali, dully, would be your best bet here.
     
    McGrain, Nov 26, 2017
    McGrain, Nov 26, 2017
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  9. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If Eddie Machen could go 12 rounds with Liston, then Ezzard Charles might too.
    Styles make fights, and Charles wasn't a pushover, and had loads of experience.

    Liston vs Machen scores weren't grossly out of line.
    • Unofficial AP scorecard: 118-115 Liston
    • Unofficial UPI scorecard: 115-113 Liston
     
    Longhhorn71, Nov 26, 2017
    Longhhorn71, Nov 26, 2017
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  10. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What are you talking about?...picking a certain time period to make your argument? Sonny is always going to be known as a QUITTER as champion...whether it fits your agenda or not! The "fight" up in Maine in May 1965 doesn't help him either. Met him as a kid in November 1964 in Plymouth Ma. training for the Ali rematch!!!
     
    RockyJim, Nov 27, 2017
    RockyJim, Nov 27, 2017
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  11. Gudetama

    Gudetama Active Member Full Member

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    I would have Liston as favorite against most previous fighters, save Jack Johnson.
     
    Gudetama, Nov 27, 2017
    Gudetama, Nov 27, 2017
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  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    That's a very shallow way of looking at things, maybe you have an agenda too. You certainly seem fixated on that one single aspect. SRR, Arguello, Vitali, Duran, an endless stream of fine fighters have quite at one stage or another.
     
    JohnThomas1, Nov 27, 2017
    JohnThomas1, Nov 27, 2017
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  13. unitas

    unitas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    i have my doubts about him being Louis. vs the rest, he´d be a clear favorite imo.
     
    unitas, Nov 27, 2017
    unitas, Nov 27, 2017
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  14. Gudetama

    Gudetama Active Member Full Member

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    (so drunk he's quoting his own post...)
    I think Louis would do Liston, too :)
     
    Gudetama, Nov 27, 2017
    Gudetama, Nov 27, 2017
    #14
  15. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Tbh, i specified that time period as i see that as his prime years, similar to Tyson '88 - '90.
    That and i couldn't bear to read your oft repeated nonsense about him being a quitter.
    Change the record, we know you don't rate Liston or Foreman as they are often seen as nightmare opponents for your 49-0 hero.
     
    BlackCloud, Nov 27, 2017
    BlackCloud, Nov 27, 2017
    #15
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